Salmond hosted at Glasgow Central Mosque

A couple of weeks ago now something quite unthinkable happened. A dinner was held at Glasgow Central Mosque in honour of Alex Salmond upon his becoming First Minister.

It was put on by the Jamiat Ittihad-ul-Muslimeen, the organisation that runs the mosque. In years gone by this body has been the most pro-Labour of any Muslim organisation in the country.

The now standard praise of the First Minister is his response to the Glasgow Airport attack when he came to the mosque the day after and pledged his solidarity with the Muslim community in front of the world's waiting media. What's not spoken about anymore was that two years ago, he offered to do exactly the same thing after the July bombings, but was remarkably refused entry by the management committee.

He was told that the mosque didn't do politics. Very shortly afterwards, the mosque's community hall was the scene of a Muslim Friends of Labour fundraising dinner. So the recent Salmond dinner shows how far things have come in a short space of time, while a new figurehead in the mosque has no doubt helped too.

I understand the turnaround has not been greeted without much consternation from the Labourites within it, most notably from Clan Sarwar.

The dominance of their kind of thinking was such that in 2003, the mosque was abused to such an extent that a press conference was held urging Muslims to vote Labour one month after the invasion of Iraq. This was in response to leaflets that activists, myself included, were putting out in Govan at the time of the Scottish elections against Gordon Jackson who had shamefully not voted against the war. Jackson was present at the press call alongside Mohammad Sarwar where it was said that we had "no right to speak for the community".

I'm glad those days have gone. The mosque is somewhere that biased party politics should play no part. Any political leader wishing to show support and get to know the Muslim community should be absolutely welcome there.

Comments

[mohammed_shafiq]

This is complete nonsense!! The mosque has always been non political until now. Any event that was held in the past was held in the Community Hall, was paid for by the organisors and was never done under the mosque's banner or in its name.

Osama dont politicise the mosque and Islam for your own gain. It is not a Labour or an SNP institution. Jack McConnell was First Minister for years, he was never "honoured" by the mosque. He attended an event at the mosque on two occasions and neither was done under the mosques banner.

Keep our religious institutions non political!! You attack democratically elected individuals for being described as "community leader", a title that they have not given themselves, at tthe same time you claim to be the spokesman for Muslims in Scotland and a community leader.
Who elected you in this position?

Are you a party political candidate or a neutral spokesman for the community? Pick a side!!

[G Khan]

I was there Osama and it was nice of Mr Salmond to namecheck you as the successor to the trailblazing of Mssrs Maan, Sarwar and Ahmed!

[so_happy]

Salaam to Mohammed Shafiq - I don't know if you're some sort of spokesman for the Mosque, but in any case, if you're putting up a defense you should take care to note Osama's actual points and claims.

The POINT: He stated his opinion that the Mosque should indeed NOT be biased to one party, and all should be welcome to show solidarity there. So why are you accusing him of politicising the Mosque? It seems that people only say these things when the politics doesn't agree with their own. So the status quo (Labour bias) was always fine until someone challenged it, then it was "Oh no, no politics in the Mosque."

Secondly, the CLAIM: that the management refused to allow Salmond to come and speak in July 2005. Do you deny this?

[Osama]

As salaamu alaikum Mr Shafiq,

You seem quite animated when really I'm saying things on this front are now run better at the mosque!

You say: "This is complete nonsense!! The mosque has always been non political until now. Any event that was held in the past was held in the Community Hall, was paid for by the organisors and was never done under the mosque's banner or in its name."

Are you saying that the mosque invoiced Labour for the press conference held there urging Muslims to vote for Gordon Jackson a month after the Iraq war? If so, do you think this was nevertheless wise, given as it was put about in the media that the mosque was backing Labour? And how do you explain the presence of the Jamiat secretary sitting next to Sarwar and Jackson at the event?

"Osama dont politicise the mosque and Islam for your own gain. It is not a Labour or an SNP institution. Jack McConnell was First Minister for years, he was never "honoured" by the mosque. He attended an event at the mosque on two occasions and neither was done under the mosques banner."

If you're complaining that the Jamiat should not have honoured Salmond, then I suggest you take it up with them. Perhaps you have. I would submit to you that the situation with Salmond is qualitatively different to McConnell. This is because he never took the slightest interest in the Muslim community, while Salmond has been at our events for over a decade now. It took Jack six years in office before he met a cross-section of the Muslim community (two months before this year's elections). If he had been FM, would he have turned up at GCM 24hours after the Glasgow Airport attack? Debatable, but this is probably why the Jamiat held the dinner.

"Keep our religious institutions non political!! You attack democratically elected individuals for being described as "community leader", a title that they have not given themselves, at tthe same time you claim to be the spokesman for Muslims in Scotland and a community leader."

I've not done either. Everyone has a right to carry on whatever work they're doing. I don't claim to speak on behalf of anybody. I'll call things as I see them, and people can always feel free to agree or disagree.

[mohammed_shafiq]

Wasalams. Thanks for the responses.

To so_happy, i am happy to address the points.
"The POINT: He stated his opinion that the Mosque should indeed NOT be biased to one party, and all should be welcome to show solidarity there. So why are you accusing him of politicising the Mosque? It seems that people only say these things when the politics doesn't agree with their own. So the status quo (Labour bias) was always fine until someone challenged it, then it was "Oh no, no politics in the Mosque."

In his view the mosque was political, he is totally wrong and unjustified to discredit the mosque by saying that "this body has been the most pro-Labour of any Muslim organisation in the country". As I said any event that took place was paid for by the organisor and was not done under the banner of the mosque. As I said the mosque has never "honoured" a previous FM or a previous Muslim elected representative. That event was an SNP event in all but name.

Secondly the Claim:"that the management refused to allow Salmond to come and speak in July 2005. Do you deny this?"

I have no knowledge of this claim. Perhaps you should raise it with the mosque if you feel it IS true.

Brother Osama, thanks for your response but again I think you are talking complete nonsense!!

I stress again that no Labour event has been done under the mosque's banner. I cant comment on the press conference that you mentioned as I know little of it. There are also serious issues to do with Data Protection with the use of the membership list to invite guests to this SNP event!!

But the point remians which you failed to address is who made you the spokesman for the community? You are the spokesman for the MCS and MAB, how democratic are these organisations? How do you obtain membership? When is its AGM?

You claim you are a "distinguished community leader", who elected you in this position?

On your point about Jack McConnell, "he never took the slightest interest in the Muslim community, while Salmond has been at our events for over a decade now". When he was FM he attended several events with the Muslim community, just because he didnt attend one of your events doesnt mean he ignored the community.

Stop pretending that you or the organisations that you are part of are neutral, you and they are a mouthpiece for the SNP and are using these groups as a front to build support for the SNP within the Muslim community.

[Muhammad Hafiz]

More serious than the management committee shenanigans is the blinkered intolerant young people that the imams there are producing

[so_happy]

It seems, brother Mohammed, that you're getting more hysterical from comment to comment. You have some points valid to raise, but you're mixing those up with your evident hostility to the SNP and to Osama in particular.

I'll leave Osama to defend himself if he so chooses, but I have a deep personal problem with fabricated quotes. So kindly furnish us with the source of Osama's describing himself as a "distinguished community leader". Or else withdraw it and apologise.

[Shavez]

I think Mohammed himself sees Osama as a community leader so thinks that he must have claimed such an honourific title for himself at some stage.

[Osama]

Mr Shafiq, I am amazed you can't see the contradiction in your own comments:

"I stress again that no Labour event has been done under the mosque's banner. I cant comment on the press conference that you mentioned as I know little of it."

I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone so breathtakingly contradict themselves in the space of two consecutive sentences!

Trust me, that press conference took place. I still have the cuttings and can send you them if you wish to peruse. Will you condemn it and take back your earlier post? Or are you just here to (attempt) to score cheap points? Your claim that the mosque committee had never so much received a politician has now been shot to pieces, so you've decided to attack me personally, even though I had nothing to do with organising the Salmond event:

But the point remains which you failed to address is who made you the spokesman for the community? You are the spokesman for the MCS and MAB, how democratic are these organisations? How do you obtain membership? When is its AGM?

Well you rather hit the nail on the head with that. I have spoken for organisations and therefore its members and leadership - not for everyone in the community. I no longer speak for the MAB. The MCS held its inaugural AGM in September. Bashir Maan, head of the Jamiat, was elected as its convenor. I was also elected onto the board by the meeting which was attended by an unprecedented number of Scotland mosques and Islamic orgs. Any Islamic organisation happy with MCS's objectives is free and indeed encouraged to join. Out of interest, you said in your first comment that there are "democratically elected community leaders" - who did you mean?

"You claim you are a "distinguished community leader", who elected you in this position?"

I repeat again, I've never claimed what you've inexplicably put in inverted commas. I'm just getting on with business and will let others like you worry about the pigeon holing. If you're going to say that's how I view myself a third time, as so_happy says, at least provide some evidence.

[musa]

salamun alaikum it seems brother mohammad is a stooge of labour one of those uncle tom sell outs and old school mosque mafia's who do more harm to the muslims than helping them.

good job bros osama, keep up the good work inshallah

[mohammed_shafiq]

Thanks for the responses again.

I have no hostility towards the SNP, whose position on the Iraq war I share and respect. I also have a lot of respect and time for Alex Salmond. I just dont believe we should be a single issue community.

I also certainly do not have any hostility towards brother Osama, whith whom I disagree with on certain issues and agree with on many issues.

What I have a problem with is our religion and our institutions being politicised for personal or party gain. I also have a problem with self appointed mouthpieces who believe they represent the community when they clearly do not.

I am sorry brother Osama if you have missed the point or misread my words, I wrote "You attack democratically elected individuals for being described as "community leader", a title that they have not given themselves" not what you have spun as "democratically elected community leaders" - who did you mean?". So please dont misquote me.

Brother Osama you continue to mention this apparent press conference, do you at the same time accept that the event that was held a couple of weeks ago was a SNP event in all but name done under the banner of the mosque? If so, is that being political and is it not wrong? Will you condemn it just as you condemn the alleged press conference?

So you are no longer the spokesman for the MAB? So why are you still quoted as their spokesperson? You are now the spokesperson for the MCS, is that correct?

How many members are there of the MCS? Are only organisations allowed to gain membership and not individuals? If so, which organisation do you represent? If individuals can be members, how do you obtain membership? How many members are there? How many organisations are members? Who decided which were invited? How many people attended the AGM? When is the next AGM?

So many questions, so few answers from you. I apologise if you feel I am being negative or to inquisative but I think I have a right to know who claims to represent me as a Scottish Muslim.

[so_happy]

Mohammed, I think you were comprehensively answered by Osama, and throwing out more questions doesn't make that any less true. You seem to have failed to grasp the point that when he speaks for an organisation, it's the right of the organisation to put him forward. Osama doesn't (and can't) claim to represent everyone, that's simply an absurd notion in itself.

But Osama just told you plenty of information about MCS (including, interestingly, that its head is also the head of the Jamiat!). If you have more questions about the MCS, why don't you go and ask Bashir Maan perhaps, instead of asking them here with a clear agenda to imply the illegitimacy of a body of which you admit total ignorance?

[mohammed_shafiq]

I apologise again if you feel i am ranting, but these are legitimate questions which clearly you do not want to answer.

so_happy claims I was comprehensively answered by Osama. Which point did he answer? The point about the SNP event? No. The questions regarding the MAB and MCS? No. His own position? No. SNP front organisations? No. Breaking laws on data protection? No.

What he did do is attempt to discrdit legitimate questions by claiming i was scoring "cheap points".

Is so_happy the new spokesman for the spokesman?

See post on Bhutto's death.

[Osama]

My question still stands - who did you mean when you said this?:

"You attack democratically elected individuals for being described as "community leader", a title that they have not given themselves"

What is not just spin, but a lie, is your claim that I've appointed myself as a community leader, something which you've still not withdrawn or alternatively provided evidence for.

What I'm asking is quite reasonable. I answered all your previous direct questions about the MCS before your new set. I don't mind going into it but if you want to go on, please do engage half-way properly. I know this medium is imbalanced in that my identity is clear and you're basically an anonymous person on the internet. I don't mind this as long as the debate is constructive and two way.

If you don't want to do that, let's leave this be, you've gone wildly off topic anyway. That's understandable given my central point in this post stands - that the mosque in years gone by was being run in an entirely pro-Labour fashion and doesn't seem to be anymore. You've tacitly accepted that now. You may regard the other week as an SNP event (I'd disagree e.g. Sarwar doesn't normally speak at SNP events), but crucially people would not object if Wendy Alexander or Nicol Stephen arrived next week - there was no such plurality in recent years.

[so_happy]

What's your point, sir? That I've twice expressed agreement with Osama's writing and aims? A bit immature of you, don't you think?

[Ali]

I have just had a look through these exchanges with Mr Shafiq and doubt we'll be hearing from him soon...

He has tried to bat away just about everything including the fact that he may well be a Labour stooge!

I have a bit of time on my hands and I don't particularly like people who sling mud at others whilst not actually looking at themselves. Therefore, if you do come back to this Mr Shafiq, then I am sure you will be delighted to know that I have made this all quite simple for you -

You have a few issues with Osama, and feel agrieved that he hasn't answered your questions so lets look at a couple-

1. The mosque has been non-political up until now.

Frankly, that is a load of claptrap and if you even had an ounce of impartiality then you would accept that fact. This logic has also been smashed after the whole - disgraceful - Press conference debacle. I take exception to you continually calling it 'alleged'.. Delusion is a fatal weakness when debating.

2. You claim to be the spokesman for Muslims in Scotland and a community leader.
Who elected you in this position?

Well, he answered that with is response about MCS. Never has Osama claimed to be speaking for the Muslim community - speakin for an organisation is a completely different matter.

3. This was an SNP event.

Erm, no it wasn't. Neither was it organised by the SNP or funded. Sarwar spoke at it and so did Stephan House. Do I suspect a hint of jealously that your New Labour brown-nosers aren't the top men anymore and nobody wants a picture with them?

'discrdit legitimate questions' [sic] -

so if your questions are actually inquries about 'data protection' (which Osama has nothing to do with) and SNP front organisations (again, whats this got to do with the actual post and name them) then can you really blame him for thinking that you are a half-wit with a hidden agenda?

Now you can call me a spokeman for the spokesman, but I don't mind. Because I have a duty to stand up for someone who actually speaks his mind and doesn't act like a lickspittal.

As for a 'one-issue' party.. I think you will find that when it comes to policy after policy.. the SNP are miles ahead - not only for Muslims - but Scotland. Iraq, Trident, Faith Schools, Community cohesion, Civil Liberties, Economy etc etc

I can't believe i've spent this amount of time showing you up... Go away and polish that bold head...

[mohammed_shafiq]

"I can't believe i've spent this amount of time showing you up... Go away and polish that bold head..."

Is this the level of maturity we have come to expect from you? Just because I ask pertinant questions which you obviously find uncomfortable you resort to throwing insults.

"He has tried to bat away just about everything including the fact that he may well be a Labour stooge!"

Just beacause I disagree with you on certain issues you assume that I am a Labour stooge and attempt to discredit my legitimate questions.

Ali as a supporter, you should know that on Osama's own campaign page he is referred to as "a distinguished community leader". Oops you must feel extremely silly now making all those denials!!! He is an admin for this page and updates it on a regular basis.

I also looked into the press conference at the mosque. This was actually held in a community centre in Govan constituency according to newspaper reports. And the mosque did not encourage people to vote labour. In the Islamic centres statement they urged Muslims to vote “according to the dictate of their consciences”. They also said that the MAB did not represent them. Again because they dont agree with your position, you attempt to discredit them. Was Ashrif Anjum, a former Conservative candidate and member, not President of mosque at the time?

My original point still stands, which you appear to agree with, that the mosque should be non-political. So I urge you not to use it as a political pawn for your own ends.

I am not going to enter into a debate about the positives and negatives of particular parties, beacause frankly I dont care. My point throughout my posts have been that our religion and our institutions should not be used (by anybody) for personal or party political gain. Do you disagree with this?

Insults, cheap shots, accusing me of alterior motives or attempting to paint me as some sort of stooge is your way of clouding genuine questions which you clearly dont want to answer.

I cant believe I have wasted so much time proving my point...and showing you up (although this was not my motive)...I am sorry that I have wasted both of our time.

[Osama]

RE the community leader stuff I had to think carefully what you were talking about and can't believe that you're basing the whole thing on that Facebook page. You'll have undoubtedly noted that I didn't have to create my own one. I also am "admin" for this blog, but am not responsible for what you write.

It's funny because someone said to me yesterday that I'm a great community leader. That's up to him. It's not something I seek. My own philosophy is that leadership is performance and function, not title and claim. I've never sought to represent you as you've said, and you've still not backed up your misconception. It's ok for you to say you got it wrong on what you thought I was about.

You seem to have a form of daddy complex about people speaking for you. You've STILL not said who these democratically elected community leaders are you spoke about in your first comment. As I said, I'm not answering new points as it's impossible to have debates on this medium if you're not going to engage properly. It's hard to answer about the effectiveness of our other institutions, such as the MCS, when you clearly have a yardstick, but are reticent in laying out what it is.

As for the mosque being used as a "political pawn", I don't have any say-so in how it is run. I'm sure you know that. I'm happy as I said in the original post above, for any politician of any stripe to visit. You seem to have particular beef with Salmond coming though. That's up to you, but I had nothing to do with inviting him. Any complaints you have should be directed at the chairman and committee. I believe people like Sarwar Sr have already done so, so in your own modus operandi, you may be very happy to simply be represented on this issue rather than do anything yourself.

[G Khan]

This Shafiq character isn't just a Lbaour stooge, but it's blindingly obvious is at the very least someone very close to the Sarwar mafia. More accurately, they don't care one jot about the Labour Party, it's just a means to their own status. No senior Scottish Labour figure has got to know the Muslim ocmmunity, not jst because they don't care, but because Sarwar's happy to be chaudry-in-chief when it comes to Muslims and Labour.

Note despite the vociferous protestations of political impartiality, Shafiq's almost almanac knowledge of Jack McConnell's visits to the mosque - not known as he says to the wider public because they were only to private Labour events.

Note the defence of the strange behavious of previous mosque committees, but the blanket condemnation on all grounds, including the Data Protection Act, of the Salmond event.

It's a pity that they are so ashamed of themselves not to reveal their true thoguhts, but not ashamed enough to let some out.