Atif Siddique sentenced

Atif Siddique (see here and here for my previous posts on this) was sentenced to eight years this week by Lord Carloway.

This was less than what was expected, with newspaper reports at the time of conviction talking about the region of 15 years. Nevertheless it's still a tough sentence, which is to be expected under any conviction under the Terrorism Acts.

This could have two distinct effects. Firstly, if there are any more like Siddique out there, they will be suitably deterred from their dabbling with these kind of ideas.

The second effect is more troubling. At what point did Siddique change from being someone with an unhealthy interest to someone that needed to be prosecuted? Given the scope of the Terrorism Acts, it could well be very difficult for there to be anything other than a binary interpretation of this.

My concern would be then whether the Siddique case will help in dissuading any people there may be out there who are flirting with this ideology. Rather than seek help, they and family members may worry about material that may be found on laptops. For those that have not got to the stage of plots, bombs and bullets, an intellectual detox would be in order to reprogramme them back onto the road of mainstream thinking.

This is an issue that has come up in recent discussions I've been having on the terrorism issue. The Home Office have funded a number of different initiatives aiming to counter terrorist ideology. I myself am involved in a number of grassroots programmes that aim to train young Muslims in how they can be firmly rooted in their faith and at the same time loyal citizens of their country. Rather than being contradictory, the one actually demands the other.

However, if anyone that would be in need of such a course of action could realistically be prosecuted, then what would the purpose of these initiatives be? I think there needs to be a debate or guidance on where exactly the tipping point is if we're to be getting reliable information on any potential future problems lest they be dug even deeper underground. Given that this problem germinates on the internet and that anger over Iraq is going to continue, this is not good to say the least.

Thanks to Graham and someone from Clackmannanshire who have left comments on this at one of my previous posts.

Comments

[Yunus]

Yes, I can see where you are coming with the education thing, but will you include Muhammed Abduh, Nasr Abu Zayd and - more importantly - anti-imperialist Muslim intellectuals like Farid Esack on your recommended reading lists? And will you recommend peaceful non-conformist Muslim websites such as God Alone and Muslim Wake Up? Otherwise, don't count on the support of liberal Muslims (and there are more of us than you think!)

[joe90]

Here is the judge's sentencing statement -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/23_10_07_siddique.pdf>HMA V Mohammed Atif Siddique (pdf format)
23 Oct 2007

More info from the BBC, including the pdf file above -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/7056707.stm>Man jailed for terrorism offences
BBC Scotland
23 Oct 2007

Basically, you'll get put in jail for two years if you put a link in your own personal website to another website that is already freely available, on the internet, to all and sundry!

Silly and wrong-headed 17 year old Atif Siddique gets 2 years in the pokey for two hyperlinks! This is astonishing!

I dread to think what would have happened to Atif Siddiue if he had been involved in Britian's largest bomb-making factory organised and run by some ex-BNP scum!

Or what if the ex-BNP terrorist bombers, with actual real bombs and rockets and actual real terrorist equipment, had've only indulged in website publishing and collecting electronic pamphlets and the like?

[Osama Saeed]

Yunus, not quite sure what it is that you'd like to be supporting or what is on offer.

Joe, on the day of Siddique's sentencing a student was convicted at the High Court in Glasgow for actually detonating bombs. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7056725.stm

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I doubt whether his sentence will be anywhere near proportionate to Siddique's. In law, what this seems to point to is that if you are Muslim then for the same crime as a non-Muslim, you'll get harsher treatment. This seems an absurd situation to say the least. See this link for my previous comment on this http://www.osamasaeed.org/osama/2007/10/more-thoughts-o.html

[joe90]

Thanks for that Osama!

I see the BBC forget to make comparisons with other similar type bombings of discos, such as the Bali bombing
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7040805.stm>Bali bombings remembered
or forgotten, depending on who is doing the bombing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7063727.stm>Explosives manual teenager jailed
BBC
26 Oct 2007
Again, this type of material is freely available on the internet. You shouldn't have this material though - but the young lad, just staring out on life, gets 6 months in jail for having a bomb-making manual under his bed - what was the jail sentence given to the ex-BNP actual rocket and bomb-factory owners ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7064270.stm>Jury sees 'terror training' video
BBC
26 Oct 2007
Clearly, here is a bunch of big numpties, needing to grow up and get a life, caught playing at soldiers doon the wids!
Whoever next, I wonder - Muslim paintballers and Muslim video gamers perhaps?

Intellectual detox-
And I quite agree with your 'intellectual detox' stratagem. It reminds me of Prof Chomsky urging people to undertake a course of 'intellectual self-defense'.

I understand how these young laddies must feel about these gross injustices that seem to never end and those that carry them out being rewarded for their efforts, such as Tony Blair being made 'Middle East peace Envoy'. It can be quite alienating but the thing is, most everybody else feels that same way as them. They aren't alone and cut off. They are actually mainstream in their feelings, its just their ways of trying to effect change which isn't just damaging to themselves and other innocent people, but is actually counter-productive to the very values and ideals they hold most dear.

There is nothing the western elite, such as the American and British Establisments, love more than ordinary people resorting to violence. The BBC, for instance, absolutely lap this stuff up. They thrive on it. And war criminals like Bush and Blair use it as justification to increase their attacks on the general public, both at home and abroad.

In the struggle for freedom, democracy and justice there is no such thing as instant gratification. Moral progress is a slow process. Just ask Palestinians about it, and they'll tell you - the greater the odds, the greater the struggle, the greater the humanity needed to overcome. That is how brilliant Palestinians are!

all the best Osama!

ps
George Galloway on BBC Question Time this week said of Tony Blair -
“...When he was made Middle East Peace Envoy, I thought, short of making Harold Shipman the posthumous head of Help the Aged, there could not be a more inappropriate appointment…and then up he pops in New York speaking to, God forbid, a Catholic audience, threatening Iran with war…and he’s supposed to be the peace envoy!”

[Clackmannanshire]

As a white person living in a 'new-labour' society, I can only express my FEAR of the fast approaching 'colourphobia' as we fastly fall under a state of panic closely micking that of an American society.
Has it really come to the time where we have been programmed to fear our own because they have a beard and slightly darkened skin?

[joe90]

Intellectual self-defence and detox course continued -
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1193479497.html>Re: Ive just watched Question Time and i think you're'll going soft!
comment posted by Rhisiart Gwilym
Media Lens Messege Board
27 Oct 2007

[comment starts]
" Siwmae (Hiya) Keith!

Commiserations. I just can't watch stuff like 'Question' Time any more...

...The rage boils up in me instantly too, to the extent that my partner just won't watch anything controversial with me. But then, she has close family connections to the leadership of the Republican movement in occupied Eire; she had years of listening to her fiery mother shouting back in rage as the radio and tv hosed out their deceitful indoctrinations.

I try these days to cling on to the unvarying Medialens position: that staying calm, thinking carefully, being kindly and courteous to absolutely everyone -- no exceptions! -- is not only the right way to go spiritually and in the intelligent service of healing the manifold sufferings of the world, but it also has the best strategic impact. And haven't the Davids proved the truth of that since they got going!

It's a difficult discipline for the fiery temperament, as you seem to find too, Keith, especially when it's compounded by the naturally-increasing irascibility of age.

But in the end, what makes me keep coming back to my limping attempts to imitate virtuosos of the art, like the Davids, and Chomsky, and Pilger, is that last consideration: it works! It's like a Tai Chi master sledge-hammering the opposition without seeming to do anything violent at all; and also -- another key thought, I suppose -- without actually doing damage either to the body or the spirit of the floored opponent, so that his/her healing and rapprochement become possible to.

As I understand it, the very greatest martial artists have left behind permanently all vengefulness and triumphalism. They try only -- even with their defences -- to promote peaceability. Really, they're like the boddhisatvas, who volunteer to forgo their own final disappearance into ultimate salvation until they've assisted every last suffering thing everywhere to escape also from suffering.

Blimey! It's like standing at the foot of the North Wall of the Eiger, and forcing yourself to begin a solo ascent. But worth the commitment, I think."
[comment ends]

Also try -
http://www.medialens.org/cogitations/>Cogitations
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all the best!