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11 October 2007

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Ted

" Let the Prime Minister or the Home Secretary fly in the plane."

Sorry, Osama, but this is simply childish. For the system to work (and I assume you believe that we should at least have a system) it requires many people to do many jobs effectively.

The Government has a right to manage the population and to decide who it lets into its borders - in fact, some would say it's one of the few duties governments should have.

XL Airways has the right to refuse any business - though I wonder why they accepted the contract in the first place. What did they think it would entail? Anyway, they're free to withdraw from the deal at any time and refuse any further business.

I wouldn't swap the mockingly named Democratic Republic of Congo for the UK but that doesn't mean I think *everyone* in the DRC should live in the UK. The system for citizenship in the UK has to be more than 'how quickly can you get here?' If you accept that it does then you accept that some people will be unsuccessful. If you accept that some people will be unsuccessful then someone has to arrange for them to go back home.

Osama

Ted, obviously we're not going to agree on the politics of this. I believe you should do as much good as you can. If you can't help all the people of Congo, at least deal well with what's in front of you.

On the point of the PM being on the plane, it is somewhat facetious but with a serious element. If he's ok with other civilian passengers being on the plane, then why not him? I think it's essential he knows what's going on if he's going to be sanctioning these life and death decisions.

It's not good enough to say that people are allotted different jobs, and the PM never needs to see this unsavoury side of his operations. If he's managing to get about schools and hospitals for photoshoots, then he can cast better oversight on this.

There is a real problem when our leaders divorce themselves from what goes on under their watch - and unfortunately views like yours support them. There was a time that when a leader wanted to go to war, he was on a front line. Now such characters have never experienced any military action, never mind the ones they themselves bloodthirst over and initiate. This is an appalling form of hypocrisy, and one that allows inhumanity to take place.

jungle

"The system for citizenship in the UK has to be more than 'how quickly can you get here?'"

That is why the asylum system was put in place - in order to make a distinction between someone just wanting to come here and someone fleeing violent persecution.

Unfortunately, in order to minimise tabloid 'outrage', the system has been utterly corrupted in order to force the figures down. The practical effect is to deny the maximum number of cases on technicalities irrespective of their merits.

"If you accept that it does then you accept that some people will be unsuccessful. If you accept that some people will be unsuccessful then someone has to arrange for them to go back home."

What you appear to be claiming (although in the most antiseptic manner possible) is that if we have anything other than total open door policies, we have to be prepared not only to deport economic migrants, but to send the genuinely persecuted 'home' to be tortured or killed by the waiting thugs outside the airport. That really is what refusing a genuine claim on a technicality means, and what the British Government is already doing, time after time.

The tragedy is that it is a completely false choice, forced on this country largely by irresponsible scaremongering. There are many, many, many middle ways between deporting the persecuted to their torturers and having "open doors".

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