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19 January 2007

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joe90

Here is my mate Umkahlil
http://umkahlil.blogspot.com/2007/01/abir-amin-10-died-today_18.html>Abir Amin, 10, Died Today
18 Jan 2007

Now compare and contrast her article with the BBC's version of this same event
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6278929.stm>Palestinian girl dies of injuries
19 Jan 2007

Words fail me.
The BBC photo even shows some kind of barbed wired boundary, and not a school and schoolchildren where the 18 months of harrassment took place.

ps
nice one Osama,
about the SPSC Nazi Holocaust holding commemorative events!

George Carty

Since the Palestinian population isn't plummeting (as the Polish population did under the truly genocidal Nazi occupation), I think the use of the word "genocide" is unwarranted.

joe90

Just a quick note,
but that is an excuse used by 'holocaust deniers' to say that, because so many defenceless and innocent Jewish folk survived the Nazi Holocaust then it wasn't genocide at all.

Same with current day Palestinian Genocide deniers,
because so many still survive up to now, as this particularly brutal racist military campaign is still on-going, then it can't be genocide.

Well, Palestinian People, their land, and their culture have been under attack for the past 100 years,
if this isn't slow-motion genocide, then I don't know what is.

As far as I am concerned, people can call what is going on green cheese, if it makes them happy.

Various words come to mind to describe the deliberate and sustained racist policies of the current racist Israeli regime. Among various epithets I have seen and use myself are ethnicide, slow-motion genocide, ethnic cleansing, nineteenth century victorian eugenics and neo-darwinism etc

The Palestinian victims themselves, use many of these labels to describe the chamber of horrors they suffer, for no other reason than the crime of being Palestinian.

ps
all the best George mate

George Carty

Just a quick note, but that is an excuse used by 'holocaust deniers' to say that, because so many defenceless and innocent Jewish folk survived the Nazi Holocaust then it wasn't genocide at all.

The Nazis fully intended to kill every Jew they could get their hands on. The only reason why any of Europe's Jews survived was because the Nazis were defeated by the Allies.

The Nazi Holocaust went on for just over 3 years (if we count from the Wannsee Conference to VE-Day). Israel has been occupying the West Bank and Gaza for 39 years and counting. If the Nazis had ruled Poland for that length of time, there'd be hardly any Gentile Poles left, never mind Jews!

joe90

That might be the case George,
but it's still the case that holocaust deniers maintain that millions of potential victims survived under Nazi rule.

There were many people in the clutches of the Nazi whom they didn't destroy but who were supposed to have been murdered.

The Nazis dominated Poland from 1939-1944 and still many millions still survived.

The fact the Nazis didn't have a particular timescale may have something to do with it.

So given enough time, I suppose the Nazis might have got their way. Same with the current racist Israeli regime as well though. It's only a matter of time. Which is what I am saying.

After all, it took many years to wipe out the First Nation Americans, down to a pale shadow of their former selves and land - as well as the genocides in Central and South America of the Aztecs and Incas. Although the Spanish tended to want to convert rather than eradicate.

The same goes for native Asutralians, where it took many years to exterminate them down to a very small survivibg population, with the notable exception of Tasmania, where every single last Tasmanian Aborigine was hunted down and murdered.

Does this mean you support decades old policy of Israeli ethnic cleansing of occupied Palestine George?

You seem quite eager to whitewash this nasty brutal disgusting racist regime?

Veritas

Why are you two guys squabbling about Holocaust denial when this poor child has died? Get a grip.

joe90

Sorry,
I've no idea what you are talking about.

One of the arguments nade against the historical existence of the Nazi Holocaust is that so many potential victims survived.

One of the arguments against the 100 year old campign, on-going and unfinished, against Palestinians is that so many are still alive.

That isn't a ' squabble' - that is perfectly reasonable contrast and comparison to make.

Rather than just characterise a perfectly valid exchange of views, you may have perhaps added something of value.

ps
here is my mate Umkahlil again, who is a Palestinian refugee, on the way this story was covered by various news organisations
http://umkahlil.blogspot.com/2007/01/facilitating-genocidethe-reporting-of.html>Facilitating Genocide:The Reporting of Abir Aramin's Death
20 Jan 2007

Ten year old Anata resident Abir Aramin's death was reported much differently in most of the western press than it was in the Palestinian press which simply means that Israel's Defense Forces will continue to carry out the Jewish State's genocide of the Palestinian people, as yet an unfinished and ongoing project.

Sohaib

George, how rigidly defined is the term "genocide"? As a political term, it must admit some debate or flexibility. As Ilan Pappe said above, he thought hard before considering its application to the Palestinians, precisely because it is a charged term. So, the population is not plummeting as some others plummeted. Can one genocide not differ from another? How should we describe the eradication of a people, even if not through the gas chambers?

George Carty

So, the population is not plummeting as some others plummeted. Can one genocide not differ from another? How should we describe the eradication of a people, even if not through the gas chambers?

If the population of the targeted group is not plummeting, then the "genocide" can't be being carried out very effectively, can it?

I'm not saying that some ultra-Zionists wouldn't like to exterminate the Palestinians, but they know that this would be suicidal for Israel as even the American's wouldn't tolerate it.

joe90

The US tolerated the the Indonesian genocide in East Timor for long enough,
so what is so special about the Israeli treatment and destruction of Palestine and Palestinians that the US should bother their heads about it, I've no idea.

Israel has just attacked the whole of Lebanon - that wasn't just suicidal, or was just barely tolerated, but was positively supported and encouraged by the US and the UK in particular.

As far as your argument goes George,
the same can be said for the Nazi Holocaust - at least two-thirds of their potential victims survived hence it was neither very effective or efficient either.

As I said,
you can call what is happening to the culture land and poeple of Palestine, anything that takes your fancy really - I am not too fussy myself what adjectives or nouns get used.

The fact is, that this is a huge racist Israeli social engineering project against the Palestinians - all of whom live inside some kind of Israeli constructed Warsaw Ghettos and all of whom are defenceless, just awaiting whatever the racist Israeli regime deems to be their fate. The racist Israeli regime is merely awaiting the appropriate opportunities to carry out their filthy policies of ethnic cleansing.

The largest refugee population in the world is Palestinian.

Most refugees get to return very quickly to the former homes - not so the Palestinians who have been illegally and ruthlessly excluded from their own land for over 50 years, by one of the ugliest regimes on the planet.

joe90

The Palestinian population certainly plummeted in 1948, that is a certainty.

And some of those doing the 'plummeting' were former inmates of Nazi concenration camps and death camps!

The Palestinian population plummeted again in 1967, when Israel invaded and illegally occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

The Palestinian refugee community was systematically attacked and destroyed in the illegal Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982.

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