Muslims refusing MRSA gel

The Sun have today uncovered instances where Muslims visiting people in hospital would not wash their hands on entry to wards because the handgel provided contains alcohol.

It would have been a good idea for the Sun to actually ask some Islamic scholars for some rulings on the matter. It is forbidden to consume alcohol, but there is no such prohibition on its external use.

This goes back to reasoning. Any course of action which would lead to the mind being impaired in intoxication is considered haraam. This is why drinking alcoholic beverages is prohibited, but even if you had to consume the soap, it would leave you ill yes, drunk no.

Normally you would take what the Sun says with a pinch of salt. However, I can believe this one as this kind of petty misguided scrupulousness is present amongst all too many Muslims. Ignorance would be putting it mildly when we come to an issue where rather that look at what their faith actually says, they would risk spreading vicious hospital bugs.

Islam favours community benefit, making this an especially sad story. For more info, see this fatwa about the external use of perfumes (not even something with a health benefit) containing alcohol.

Comments

[Hakim]

"It is forbidden to consume alcohol, but there is no such prohibition on its external use."

Osama, I'm a manager of an Infection Control Department at a very large hospital in New York City and it should NOT be a problem that patients or the family and friends of patients refuse - what we call - alcohol based hand gel, soap and water is sufficient, just as long as a form of hand-hygiene is performed.

The complaint is another attempt to exploit Muslims, do not fall for it. I have staff that refuse the hand gel because it is extremely drying, without the more expensive emolients. Do not let the media fool you, this is another trick.

maa' salaama

[Naveed]

The way The Sun presents the UK muslim population is derogatory most of the time, we're usually classed as extremists etc etc... Let's try not to pander too much to what The Sun says.

To clarify a point, it is perfectly fine to use an alcohol based gel to clean one's hands, as the alcohol is synthetic - not produced through the process of fermentation. Also, as clearly stated it is for external use, and as such, is not "imbibed" as an intoxicant.

Future headline "MUSLIMS RESPONSIBLE FOR ASBO YOUTHS DRUNK ON ALCOHOL GEL"... whatever next?

Wa salaam.

[George Carty]

I did a double-take on your screen name, because we once had a racist poster here who used the name 'naveen'...

[chunkylafunga]

Naveed is that shop keeper in still game

[Farouq Taj]

I agree with your point of view in that there is nothing wrong in using alcohol based soap.

However it is a fact that a significant number of Muslims in the UK follow a primitive culture where religious faith and superstition blend together. Many of these Muslims consider the use of anything that has alcohol in it as forbidden including medical soap. It wouldn't surprise me if you find a few Imams willing to preach this point of view.

I can still remember back in the '80s when there was a trend amongst UK Muslims to ban everything. Booklets would be distributed outside the mosque listing all the products containing forbidden ingredients. At one stage toothpaste, bread and Coca Cola were forbidden.

I'm not sure what the solution is but many of us need to be dragged kicking and screaming out of the the dark ages.

Eid Mubarak to everyone !

[DrM]

I concur with Hakim, and Osama is on the money on this one. The Scum has reached a new low. The idiot who wrote this nonsense up ought to fired. Ever heard of community acquired pneumonia? All the alcohol gel in the world wont stop that. I don't know about the UK, but nosocomial infections account for less then 5% of hospitalizations in the US.

[Yusuf Smith]

As-Salaamu 'alaikum,

The Scum is not the worst of the problem - the BBC's morning phone-in show in London is far worse, because the BBC has the air of objectivity. The present host (Vanessa Feltz) a couple of weeks ago recycled a Muslim-bashing story about Muslims having the swimming pool to themselves one or two evenings a week despite the local papers in the area concerned not being bothered with it; her predecessor (Jon Gaunt) was a loathsome, bigoted right-wing talk show bully who got kicked out and now writes for the Scum himself.

As for MRSA it's always a ready horror story, because I'm sure some people think it's some British version of Ebola fever or something like that - which it's not, it's something you normally get from poor hygiene. A major part in stopping it is washing, and then drying, the hands properly.

[GaryJ]

Yusuf

I thought Jon Gaunt was rather good. He wasn't kicked out but left because he was offered a job at a radio station closer to where he lived in the West Midlands.

Any women-only policy at swimming pools, especially at busy times, is outrageous, and any commentator with the guts to complain about it gets my full support.

[Infidel & Kafir Watch]

Sun = Islamaphobic

[George Carty]

Any women-only policy at swimming pools, especially at busy times, is outrageous, and any commentator with the guts to complain about it gets my full support.

I believe that the demand for women-only times at swimming pools did not come solely from Muslim women though...

[Hakim]

"A major part in stopping it is washing, and then drying, the hands properly."

I find it remarkable the way Western media demonizes a group that actually excels in personal hygiene overall. I mean, where can you find a group of non-healthcare professionals, as sizable as the Muslim population, that performs hand-hygiene several times daily.

Practicing Muslims rigorously wash their hands with soap and water in a ritual of ablution which occurs prior to the daily prayers. I like to think of Islam as an effective method to attain Paradise, and to prevent the spread of infections (no pun intended).

[Osama]

Hakim, I feel a rant about the walking out of public toilets without washing of hands by many many men coming on, but I shall desist.

[Sam]

I believe that the demand for women-only times at swimming pools did not come solely from Muslim women though...

Indeed there are numerous women-only sessions at my local municipal swimming pool in Southam, Warwickshire. I would hazard a guess that a Muslim has never crossed the threshold of the building, given that the Muslim population of the area is either zero or very close to it.

(That small fact doesn't stop local Sun/Express readers panicking about the imminent destruction of their way of life by the alleged bogus asylum terror horde)

[Sam]

Apologies: first paragraph of above comment should have been a quote (George Carty, above)

[Abu Sinan]

Yeah, this is silly. Once again, it is taking something that has merit to it, the ban on drinking alcohol, and taking it to extremes.

In the Middle East, especially the Gulf, many people will not wear colognes or perfumes with alcohol.

It is common sense folks! When you take it to extremes you are missing the point.

[Saracen]

Osama, on a related note, the issue of the impurity of alcohol is not as clear cut as you state; in fact, the majority opinion is that it is impure to touch. While I don't subscribe to that opinion, it is not for us to then criticise those who do. Rather they can still wash their hands with water and soap as Hakim mentioned.

Of course there is also the simple fact that Muslims wash hands (and faces, arms, feet and ears amongst other body parts) more times a day than some people do in a week. But of course, that's of little importance.

Then of course, there is the amount of wasted hospital time due to alcohol related incidences. I dare say the waiting time at the Sun's "Muslim only" hospital may well be bearable!

[Hakim]

"Hakim, I feel a rant about the walking out of public toilets without washing of hands by many many men coming on, but I shall desist."

Yeah... I know... I see it everyday. Whats worse is that I report on Doctors, Nurses and other staff that do this and more.

For example, there was a case when a doctor went into a patient's (pt) room with gloves on; the Doctor used the pt's bathroom, then came out of the bathroom still gloved!

Next, our compassionate Doc treated the pt. - who was on contact isolation - still gloved. The Doctor then left the pt's room and went directly to another pt. without removing his gloves and performing hand-hygiene.

It can't get more disgusting then that.

[johnmellor77]

"Hakim, I feel a rant about the walking out of public toilets without washing of hands by many many men coming on, but I shall desist."

I think Osama actually means "resist."

[Maryam]

EDITORAs a practising Muslim doctor I was interested in the editorial on hand washing.1 I thought it would be useful for doctors to know our Islamic teachings in connection with hand washing, and especially to remind the many thousands of Muslim doctors who work in our clinics and hospitals today.

The last Prophet Muhammad ordered us to wash our hands many times and in connection with these occasions:

on waking from sleep;
when coming out of the toilet;
before and after eating any food;
after touching our genital or anal area or that of others (as in a doctor's examination);
after touching a dead body;
after touching any dirty or suspicious thing;
when a dog is touched, to wash our hands seven times (one of them in the sand);
in ablution before the five daily prayers, when the hands are washed three times on every occasion (plus washing the face, throat, nose, ears, arms, and feet and rubbing the hairs with water).

These frequent hand washings are done by every practising Muslim, whatever his or her job. They are more than enough for the hygiene and protection of every one of us, especially doctors.

[Anisah]

Some Muslims, esp. American Muslims (most of the ones I know are very strict), won't use any kind of soap or shampoo that has alcohol or anything that has come from pigs. I think that's a bit much. If anything you put in your hair or on your skin got into your blood stream, there would be a lot of brain-damaged people out there.

Anisah