Rangers fan thrown out of Ibrox for waving Palestinian flag

Press release:

A Rangers fan was thrown out of yesterday’s UEFA Cup clash with Maccabi Haifa for waving a Palestinian flag.

22-year-old Kashif Khaliq, an Ibrox regular for 6 years, was escorted out by a police officer at half-time. His complaints that Israeli flags were also being waved fell on deaf ears.

Khaliq said: “I first brought the flag out after Rangers scored in the fifth minute. One of the fans nearby complained so I put it away in my pocket.

 “Thirty minutes into the match another supporter came from further up the stand and shouted “Why the f*** were you waving that flag, it’s against our beliefs.”

 “At half time I was taken out of the stands by a police officer who told me I had to leave because I had the flag. I protested that other fans were waving Israeli flags, but he said that they couldn’t do anything about it.

“I feel angry that I wasn’t even given the opportunity to stay in the ground with just the flag being confiscated. I was separated from my friends who were then left behind wondering what had happened to me.”

Strange affiliations at Ibrox, as Mick Napier of the SPSC said:

"We strive to prevent the Palestinian issue being mapped on to the lingering sectarian stupidity of Scotland. Especially so, when the entire Christian community of Palestine, of all denominations, Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant, are equally victims of Israel’s remorseless ethnic cleansing as much as their Muslim neighbours."

Comments

[Saracen]

Might this not just be because Rangers fans have always flown Israeli flags, while Celtic fans have flown the Palestinian one? Thus a fan bringing the Palestinian flag into the stadium might be seen to be inciting Old Firm rivalry?

[ainelivia]

Rangers fly Israeli flags and Celtic fly Palestinian ones? Really don't get it. Is this like twinning cities, twinning sectarianisms?? And I just thought it was a game...

[joe90]

inciting Old Firm rivalry
- if that was the case, they wouldn't allow Celtic fans into Castle Greyskull at all -

- I thought the green Haifa strip was a nice touch though - maybe they should have been thrown out for incitement -

Maybe somebody ought to tell some of these Gers fans that 'Israeli' terrorists went about murdering and executing British service personnel in Mandate Palestine -

I actually thought the commotion was due to a visting Haifa fan trying to commit ritual hari-kari in his team's goalmouth, after being subjected to nearly 90 minutes of having to endure watching Rangers trying to play football -
- doesn't it make you feel suicidal as well?

[Abu Sinan]

We need to remember that many Loyalists in Ireland are very pro-Israel and they identify with Israel.

I think they have a point. The whole imperialist, racist and sectarian nature of the Israeli state fits perfect with the Loyalists of Ireland.

[bobo]

i think it is a disgrace that an individual is throwhn out of a football match simply for waving a palestinian flag as "his" team scored a goal. it just shows you the narrow mindedness of some or even a large number of rangers fans many who can be called racist facists.

i spoke to the individual straight after being ejected from the stand and he was very angry and disappointed at what had happend. he felt very ashamed as the police escorted him out. they even took his ticket off him so that there was absolutely no chance that he could re enter the stadium.. absolutely scandalous!

[ainelivia]

Abu Sinan wrote, "We need to remember that many Loyalists in Ireland are very pro-Israel and they identify with Israel.

I think they have a point. The whole imperialist, racist and sectarian nature of the Israeli state fits perfect with the Loyalists of Ireland."

Purely out of interest, AS, where did you glean these facts from that the majority of Loyalists support Israel? My reason for asking is that I wouldn't want to see any group Loyalist or Nationalist, or any other, generalised on, in order purely to make a point. There is, I think, enough of that taking place already.

[Usayd]

Err, ask Lenin (http://leninology.blogspot.com/) - its true!

Traditionaly Loyalists support Israel and Republicans support Palestine. There are Palestinian flags on murals in what used to be called Free Derry, dunno enough about the Prods.

[ainelivia]

Usayd, so that means that each and every Irish person, irrespective of their being a citizen of either the Republic of Ireland, or Northern Ireland has a loyalty to the Israeli/Palestinian situation and that loyalty is ascertained on whether or not they are a Catholic or a Protestant?

I will take a look at the blog. I was just wondering what kind of research he/she did, (at Leninology) how wide was the group researched and exactly what can be extrapolated from this assertion? Obviously you appear to accept it as a fact. Have you spoken to any Irish people and done your own research? You know there are things written in newspapers every day, that bear no relation to the actual truth, why should a blog be any different?

Does this type of acceptance of unsubstantiated fact not jar with you, when it is exactly this kind of irresponsible reporting that is responsible for quite a lot of the demonising of a certain segment of our UK community currently.

[ichomobothogogus]

no points for reading comprehension ainelivia. abu sinan said "many" loyalists support israel, not a majority. i don't know why you're attempting to spin his comment to make him seem like a bigot, but you'll need more evidence than that.

[ainelivia]

Why should I want to make anyone seem like a bigot? People usually do that for themselves. Just careless use of the language, many infers most, infers in the eyes and ears of some, all. I think you take my point. Anyway, can he not speak for himself?

[ainelivia]

Ichomobothogogus wrote, "no points for reading comprehension ainelivia".

Oh and by the way, in the "purient schoolboy culture" that seems to persist on this blog, is it always necessary to begin responding to whoever you disagree with by using some cheap taunt.

Abu Sinan, I have sighted no relevant information to your assertion on the Lenin blog.

[Ted]

I have some sympathy for Kashif Khaliq. It wouldn't be the first Old Firm match I've attended where Rangers fans have been thrown out for waving Ulster flags whilst assorted IRA banners are flown in the Celtic end. The police at Ibrox are notoriously reluctant to do anything about away supporters there and I've no idea why this should be.

And, as a general observation, the security at Ibrox is poor and subject of much criticism and debate amongst Rangers supporters so Kashif Khaliq will find, to his surprise perhaps, a sympathetic ear on Rangers-friendly forums. They seem petrified of anything political or religious in nature at Ibrox Stadium and Kashif Khaliq has fallen foul of this, I suspect, rather than specific anti-Palestinian measures.

As another observation, I don't think it would be wise to read too much into the flag-wearing associations of Rangers and Celtic supporters, in general, and in particular in relation to Israel and Palestine. One group waves one flag and the other adopts the contrary position. There's probably a small minority in each support that takes the political situation seriously but for the majority it's simply another way of taunting the opposition.

I think Mick Napier's comment was a wise and thoughtful intervention and one which many would do well to bear in mind.

[ainelivia]

Ted wrote "but for the majority it's simply another way of taunting the opposition".

Which is exactly what I thought.

Which is why our sports arenas, particularly in the UK, are being turned into no-go areas for the rest of us, as they are being used as gladitorial playgrounds for men with little else to do.

[Abu Sinan]

Aine,

I said many loyalists Aine, not all or even a majority.

Where do I get the "many" loyalists from? Well, from more than a few loyalists I know myself, from the Israeli flags that I have seen flying with my own eyes in Loyalist areas like the Shankill, Newtownards and other such places. From murals that display the Star of David in some sort of twisted attempt to try and claim either kinship with Jews, Israel, and or the idea that Protestants are somehow a choosen people of God.

I have had loyalists give me both explainations of the Star of David usage in Loyalist murals so which ever you choose to believe, that is up to you.

But I would state for the record that the Jewish people I know and am friends with would rejection any such relationship, either with Jews or Israel. Why? Because they are aware of the well known links that Loyalist groups have with far right groups in the UK, and not just that, the claims are simply rubbish.

I have spent a lot of time in the Middle East, in Palestine and the Gulf particularly. I speak Arabic, I am married to an Arab woman. I have lived in the UK and Ireland so I know a bit about both situations.

[abu sinan]

Aine,

In having read this thread further it would seem you want some sort of scientifically based polling to prove that Irish and or Celtic fans are more supportive of Palestinians and Protestants and or Rangers fans are more supportive of Israelis.

You will find no such report, and if you require any such findings to make any sort of general statement or observations it would make like rather dull because for most observations you will find no such evidence.

Next time you are walking or driving down the Shankill, see how many Palestinian flags you see, compare them to the Stars of Davids and Israeli flags you see. Next time you talk to a loyalists, ask him/her who they would support in the situation.

All I made is a general observation based on what I have seen, heard and read. If you try picking up An Phoblacht you'll see it is clear who the Republican leadership in Ireland supports. Spend much time in West Belfast and you'll see the Palestinians that have been coming for the Ard Fheis and other Republican gatherings for the last 20 years and more.

Take a stroll in the pubs along Gallowgate in Glasgow and see what people are talking about and thinking, it will be clear. Heck, listen to Christy Moore, listen to some of his songs, hit his site where he openly talks about his support for the Palestinians and his wish to write a song for Rachel Corrie.

From the people in the pubs, to the politicians, to media, it is all pretty clear who supports what, by in large.

Most of the time the only "Irish" I have ever met that have any sort of issue with the Palestinian/Irish/Republican links are "Irish" Americans, whose culture and mainstream ideas certainly are not pro-Palestinian, nor can they often stomach the fact that there is a lot of grass roots support for the Palestinians in Ireland.

Therefor they make up in their own minds that such a connection cannot exist and they block out any evidence of the contrary. Keep in mind the only "Irish" things about these lot are their names and the fact that they eat corned beef and cabbage on Paddy's Day and send it down with a bit of green beer.

And no, I am not anti-American, I am American. Just another observation, and no, I dont have a scientific study on plastic paddys. And no I am not Catholic or Protest thank you, so I have no sectarian stake in the matter.

[ainelivia]

Abu Sinan, thank you for clarifying that. I have no objection with whatever links people may claim. What I wanted was clarity. The majority of Irish people North or South of the Border have had little to do with any political factions that have gained so much newsworthiness in the last say thirty years. Most of us are just getting on with our lives. As are probably most of the Muslims in this world today are attempting to do.

In the areas you speak of this isn't as much about support for any side as getting up the noses of the opposites, whether that's Loyalist or Republican.

We all know a bit about situations, but actually living in whatever those situations are and having no choice, not being able to move away from it, and indeed perhaps not wanting to "escape" from it is something else entirely.

I thank you for explaining why you believe this to be the case.

[abu sinan]

Aine,

Sure, no worries. Although, I would have to differ with you on one aspect. I think Republicans and Nationalists who support the Palestinians do not do so because they want to give the two fingers to the "Prods" or the Loyalists, I think they do so out of genuine conviction.

Although I do think that the Loyalists that "support" Israel do so directly because they want to give the two fingers to the "taigs" on the other side.

Based on what do I say this? How many delegations have gone from the kibbutz in Israel and Palestine to the Shankill? How many groups of loyalists have traveled to Israel? Indeed, do loyalists have a history of sharing military training, funds and arms with Israel? Any high level connections between the DUP, PUP, UUP, or any other Unionist party and any structure within Israel?

The connection, with at least a part of the Nationalist and Republican community in Ireland, and the Palestinians, is real, heartfelt, and has years and years of history behind it. The same cannot be said of any sort of connection between the Loyalist community and any group or people in Israel.

[joe90]

Abu Sinan,
I salute your indefatigue-ability,
but your interlocutor is the resident scatologist and a waste of space,

Just for instance -
-the Loyalists=Isreal Republican=Palestine divide -
- it exists and is a fact of life but anyone who acknowledges its existence is generalising, or something, according to our resident scatologist -
- but they then go on to generalise about the whole of the Irish-British population, north and south of the border, saying they all just want to get on with their lives, or something !

Abu Sinan,
you have shown photos on your blog, many times, of Northern Irish wall murials to prove this phenomenon, and your own personal exposure to it (with highly redable blurbs, comments etc - I can't recommend Abu Sinans blog too much!)

You get nowhere with these types -
- if they are so interested in the sociology and exact science of these topics why do they hang around blogs instead of scientific journals and sociology websites, I've no idea

Always yours Abu Sinan!

[ainelivia]

Abu Sinan, Being Irish, gives me some advantage to understanding the Irish version of passive resistance, we've had about 700 years practice. I think understanding the Irish version of irony also helps. I have a fairly good idea of when something is meant to represent something that the outsider will not understand, and is intended to irritate them. The meaning is rarely lost on the insider.

I would hope that this link was not being used by any Irish faction, merely for that effect, and that there is a heartfelt understanding of the troubles of others.

I believe that we do disagree on some aspects of this issue. That's fine.

[ainelivia]

Joe90, Once again you seek to insult and taunt. My dialogue here with Abu Sinan is sincere, and your attempts to degrade our efforts to understand each others point of view is the usual attack of which I am tired.

I have held patience for some time now but can no longer do so. You Joe90 are the resident bully on this site.

Maybe, you have issues of anger and were bullied yourself, and now that is your mode of "communication" with others, although I do notice that you rarely insult those with whom you agree, so it is obviously those with whom you disagree that you wish to "wipe the floor" with, these constant attacks are just reflection of who you really are. Sad really.

However if you think I will accept your constant taunts and insults, without response, think again.

[ainelivia]

Joe90 wrote "You get nowhere with these types -
- if they are so interested in the sociology and exact science of these topics why do they hang around blogs instead of scientific journals and sociology websites,.."

By the same token Joe90, perhaps you are in the wrong place and should hang around the websites suitable for your militant "type" aggression, BNP perhaps?, or any neo-Nazi website, sure there are zillions out there.

By the way, "types", isn't that something the police worldwide use to profile innocent people, who are only guilty of wanting to, 1] fly; 2] being a police officer; 3]dressing in a certain way that suggests they might have chosen terrorism for a hobby?

"I've no idea" says Joe90.

"Ideas" now that would involve less aggression and more time for quiet thought, Joe90.

[ainelivia]

Abu Sinan, I nearly forgot, got sidetracked, you wrote,

"Most of the time the only "Irish" I have ever met that have any sort of issue with the Palestinian/Irish/Republican links are "Irish" Americans, whose culture and mainstream ideas certainly are not pro-Palestinian, nor can they often stomach the fact that there is a lot of grass roots support for the Palestinians in Ireland."

Now you've met an Irish woman, who felt that reporting this gives it more significance than it deserves. And who feels that any misuse of such a link, by any Irish person, would be deeply cycnical on their part.

And also, there is support for Palestinians by Americans. The Americans I know, and that doesn't exclude their being supportive of anyone else.

[joe90]

Just to re-iterate my point,

Abu Sinan was not allowed to express himself on the issue of Loyalist-Republican sympathies because he had no scientific evidence or proof to support his points of view -

So
1 - we need to be professional social scientists in order to express an opinion regarding social phenomena

2 - if such scientific evidence was available would we, as non-professionals, be able to understand it?

3 - or would those demanding such high standards from others be able to understand it themselves?

ainelivia, after using these tactics (for want of a better expression) to criticise Abu Sinan for having the cheek to express an opnion, then goes on to tell us all what is on the minds of all Irish people with no shred of scientific evidence or proof -

Indeed because ainlivia claims to be Irish, not only is S/He an authority of what is on all Irish people's minds at the moment, but what's been on them for the past 700 years!

Apart from all the hyperbolic rhetoric and professions of sincerity etc etc
holding others to higher standards than we hold ourselves has a name - its called hypocrisy.

[Abu Sinan]

Not to mention the only people I have ever heard bang on about "700 years" are either very Republican in nature, or plastic paddies.

How can someone give me stick for generalising, and then generalise themselves?

[joe90]

That character is at that sort of thing all the time,
I just don't want you wasting your energy on them Abu Sinan, uness of course you understand what they are about which is ok by me,
who am I tell others what to do !

Abu Sinan,
have a look at Umkahlil's latest post mate -
http://umkahlil.blogspot.com/2006/11/we-overcame-our-fear.html>We Overcame Our Fear

I don't think I can take much more of these images - what's going on in Gaza is beyond words, images even!

Mohammed Omar is trapped inside this Israell Warsaw ghetto hell-hole
http://rafah.virtualactivism.net/news/todaymain.htm>RAFAH TODAY

Take care and I'll pop by your blog soon AB!