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09 November 2006

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Martin

Osama,

I agree with you absolutely that this murder was probably one of those hideous one-offs which happens from time to time. The police and criminal justice systems usually can't prevent them.

In this case it is probably pointless to complain about the rules which allow for early release of prisoners and which permitted Imran Shahid to be on the streets, because Lord Uist's narration of their previous convictions makes it pretty clear that he would have killed someone sooner or later. One previous High Court conviction is usually enough for all but the most seriously committed criminal - but two?

However, there is an aspect of this case that has not been properly discussed, and it's important regradless of race. Although they picked Kriss because he was white it was reported that the Shielders had been engaged in a feud with a white gang called the Young Street Mad Squad.

Osama, in many ways this is a very Glaswegian crime, of a type that was common long before South Asian immigration - the violence wrought during the turf wars fought by the razor gangs in the '30's.

That Kriss was white was one motive - but that they associated him with a gang (to which he did not belong) seems to have been another.

All gang culture, Black, White, Asian, Chinese, is deplorable. It inevitably leads to trouble.

If senior Asians are blaming themselves, I can't think why. I don't think anyone seriously expects all Asians to assume responsibility for the Shielders' crimes.

But if gang culture starts to develop, then it does become a community responsibility to stamp it out - and that rule applies regardless of which community the gang originates from.

Ramon

Sorry to say but it really is happening that some thugs are hiding behind the racist card. Two gay friends who ran a shop were getting severe homophobic aggravation from the Iraqi shopowner next door. The police would do nothing because " he's a muslim - we're not getting involved". It finally ended with the Iraqi smashing their shop window - the incident was caught on CCTV but the local Edinburgh police told them that even with CCTV they daren't arrest an Iraqi muslim because "he even says the word racism and were suspended" . My friends were disgusted, sold up and left the country. It's nothing new - in the 90's there was a very strong gay drugs network in Edinburgh that was avoiding police interference because of the homophobia card.

Sohaib

Martin, thank you. You made sense.

DrM

These guys should have gotten the death penality. No ifs, ands or buts about it. So Marty, got any pakis to beat up this weekend, or are we take a week off from taking down eight year olds?

Martin

DrM,

Putting aside the fact that you have managed to lower the tone of a serious debate on an extremely serious topic by lobbing in an already refuted slur, one of my very serious concerns about the case has been the balance of some of the reporting.

Yes, race was critical to the commission of the offence - but Glaswegian gang culture seems to have been equally important. In my opinion both should be addressed in equal measure.

The mention of race, which when push comes to shove is literally the most superficial of intra-human differences, tends to sensationalise any subject into which it's introduced. It sells newspapers.

But Kriss Donald's death also seems to have come as much from a cultural problem which has existed in Glasgow for many, many decades - and that side of the issue has not received the critique it deserves.

Failure to tell the whole truth is a form of lying; and as a citizen, democrat and former criminal justice professional, it annoys me that the Young Street Mad Squad's role in reported gang violence in Pollokshields' hasn't thus far been put through the ringer.

Martin

By the way, DrM, on the above comment, your e-mail address is listed as dhhasdh@aol.com - but on the undernoted comment it appears as hjfspoj@aol.com -

http://www.osamasaeed.org/osama/2006/11/jack_straw_driv.html#comment-24834896

On this one it's jfposfhw@aol.com-

http://www.osamasaeed.org/osama/2006/11/jack_straw_driv.html#comment-24863763

On this one it's dhoia@aol.com -

http://www.osamasaeed.org/osama/2006/11/jack_straw_driv.html#comment-24877476

On this one it's hsdfhj@aol.com -

http://www.osamasaeed.org/osama/2006/11/jack_straw_driv.html#comment-24882604

On this one it's fhsio@aol.com -

http://www.osamasaeed.org/osama/2006/11/jack_straw_driv.html#comment-24892290

On this one it's fhsh@aol.com -

http://www.osamasaeed.org/osama/2006/11/jack_straw_driv.html#comment-24921209

You appear to have quoted a different e-mail address for every single comment on that thread, which begs the question - how many of you are there?

Veritas

Thank you Osama, Sohaib, and Martin for a balanced and sane response to this tragedy.

DrM

Ah Marty, you just don't get it do you? Try emailing me and I might take you seriously. Then again, maybe not troll boy.

Martin

DrM,

I have just remembered who you remind me of.

During the late 1970's and early 1980's there was a very popular TV show called 'Buck Rogers in the 25th Century'.

Buck, the hero, had a sidekick called Twiki (pronounced 'Tweaky').

For those unfamiliar with the show, Twiki was a robot (well, actually a dwarf in a tin suit) whose alleged charm derived from the fact that he spoke in gibberish - 'OK Buck, chubbalubbanucka (whistling sound), let's fight the aliens!'

After a while his gibberish became charmless and tedious.

You remind me of Twiki.

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