Israel's shifting grounds of complaint

Tony Blair says that before he is to leave office, he will dedicate himself to "advancing peace between Israel and Palestine". Let me offer him some advice then. On Israel's side, their main gripes are well known:

• A few years ago they said there was no partner for peace while Arafat was alive
• When he died, there was still the issue of suicide bombing. Hamas have not carried out one of these for over two years now.
• Now they say no peace till Hamas recognise Israel

Hamas for their part have observed a ceasefire in terms of martyrdom operations for two years now. They have said that if Israel withdraw from territories occupied in 1967, to the UN green line, then there will be a longstanding peace, with final issues decided by future generations.

Israel have refused. Thus far, no one in the international community have held them to task for this. The Hamas offer seems like a good proposal. However, the dominant narrative is about humiliating Hamas into making an explicit statement recognising Israel, despite the fact that their above proposal would de facto recognise them anyway. Hamas have gone a damn sight further in recognising Israel than Israel have gone in recognising Palestine.

Hamas will not go further than they have because in doing so, they know that Israel will simply add another bullet point to the ones above, and then the "international community" will talk only about how that can be met. Time for Israel to stop making excuses. Blair and friends need to have some long overdue harsh words with their Israeli friends.

Talking about Israel withdrawing from "parts" of the West Bank is not good enough, and indeed contrary to international law. Those who say "parts" of the WB should remain with Israel need to explain why. Israel has no business in the West Bank. Get them out, and you have peace.

Comments

[Martin]

Osama,

Gee, isn't 'martyrdom operations' a cute and cuddly way of describing industrial scale murder-suicides!

Would you describe 7/7 as a 'martyrdom operation'?

Or was that all part of the Zionist conspiracy?

[tc]

Hmmm. It's patently obvious (ie no conspiracy, Martin) to any objective historian that Israel isn't interested in 'peace'.

Genuine negotiations would surely highlight the rather inconvenient fact that Israel must insist on a racist, apartheid system of citizenship to remain a 'Jewish' state.

Enlightenment values, my arse.

[Sadat]

The Yahudi state now occupies not only Falestin lands but also Syrian (Golan Heights) and Lebanese (Shebaa Farms) lands.

The people of these three little nations are brave mujahids who can teach a lesson or two to the cowards of Egypt and Jordan (who surrendered in 1979 and 1994).

[George Carty]

Talking about Israel withdrawing from "parts" of the West Bank is not good enough, and indeed contrary to international law. Those who say "parts" of the WB should remain with Israel need to explain why. Israel has no business in the West Bank. Get them out, and you have peace.

Don't most Palestinians though believe that Israel itself is occupied territory?

[joe90]

Martin,
if the current Israel regime is serious about the welfare of its own citizens, all it needs to do is to end its vicious racist illegal occupation of Palestine (WB & G) and the Martyrdom Operations come to an end -

So what seems to be the problem, why won't the current Israeli regime end the racist war crimes which are responsible for the terrorist Martyrdom Operations ?
(which they are, they are terrorist attacks - but then, Palestinians are truthful about what they are about - when was the last time Israel and its little racist goon supporters ever referred to Israel war crimes, its ethnic clensing and cultural genocide of Palestine?)

Just like its recent attack on lebanon - all Israel had to do, if it was serious, not just about the welfare of its own citizens but about peace itself, all it had to do was stop its vicious one-sided assualt on Lebanon and Hezbollah rocket attacks would stop -
- so why is the onus always on the victims of Israel racist war crimes and ethnic cleansing to keep the peace when Israel flatly rejects stopping its on-going campaing of Racist War Crimes and Ethnic Cleansing Operations?

[joe90]

George McCarty,
The Palestinian People have since the mid-1970s been trying to establish peace with Israel and a Palestinian State on the West bank and Gaza. All of these peace initiatives have been flatly rejected by Israel, unilaterally (excepting, of course, with the help and support of one other state, no prizes for guessing who - the self-styled 'Leader of the Free World' and champion of democracy blah blah blah)

The Palestinians have long since adopted waht is known as 'the international consensus', a phrase coined by prof Chomsky to denote the internationally recognised outline for the basis for any lasting peace. This consensus would have Israel behind the Green Line, on its own leinternationally recognised territory, with a newly formed Palestinians State on the other side.

In 1988 at the famous Palestinian Congress in Tunisia the Palestinian representatives agreed to formerly renounce any rights to their former homeland, on which now sits Israe,l and to turn themselves from a liberation movement into a nationalist movement. In other words, in return for peace and recognition. Palestinians have willingly given up 78% of their former hoomeland and settled for making do with the remaing 22%, the West Bank and Gaza.

Both these important historic initiatives were met with either silence or the usual hostility. Israel rejected this more tha generous offer from the Palestinians, naturally. Goes without saying really. Israel always rejects peace.

An important upshot of the 1988 Congress was the formal Declaration of Independence by the Palestinians, which they are well within their legal rights to do. This inititive was under the advice of the great Francis A. Boyle and Haidar Abdul Shaffi which you can read about it in their brilliant little book
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Palestine-Palestinians-International-Francis-Anthony/dp/093286337X/sr=1-2/qid=1160058505/ref=sr_1_2/026-2457436-0249214?ie=UTF8&s=books> Palestine, Palestinians and International Law

All the best!

[Sadat]

This is how they steal Muslim lands - simply renaming them.

http://www.israelipalestinianprocon.org/Population/populationpalestinemap.html

Don't come into my home and advise me to adjust.

[Martin]

Sadat,

I'll take your advice.

Wait, wait, wait - I forgot about the dhimmitude, the dervshime, the jannissaries; Islam seems to have a not insignificant track record of coming into peoples' homes and trying to get them to adjust to itself.

Your advice has fortified me. From now on, whenever I see a report of a foreign Muslim like Abu Hamza, Trevor Forest, Omar Bakri Mohammed or Kamel Bourgass urging or practicing violence against us, or the likes of Trevor Brooks, Mohammed Siddique Khan or Anjem ('Fat Boy')Choudhary shouting 'Death to the Kufr!' or 'Death to the Pope!', I shall write to the newspapers and declare 'Sadat says to Muslims - Don't come into my home and advise me to adjust!'

Thanks for that pal. I feel better already....

[joe90]

Your point is what Martin?

I lost it all the verbage you took so much trouble to type out.

The thing is Martin,
brainwashed ideological racist fanatics like you don't have a home - you are merely a replaceable interchangeable part - exactly the same as any of the rest of your raving racist fanatical dimwits - just a part of a homogenised monoculture, fed racist propaganda trash which you can only spout back out and repeat parrot fashion.

You have no identy and no home - you belong nowhere except inside some hot-air racist balloon-world - a completley invented made up industrially created, artifical little fanatsy world designed to appeal to soft gullible minds like yours -

The above from you is just purely animal, pavlovian, emotional response with not one iota of anything of a distinctively human intellectual content - the characteristic that seperates us from the animals -

And as we can see, racist propaganda designed to reduce normal human beings to the level of animals works a treat - like any othe animal Martin, you don't have a home mate, just a habitat.

[Martin]

And so the religion of peace finds its true voice.

Kufr are animals, Islam is king.

Keep it up Joe. You're doing us all a service.

[joe90]

As long as your 'feeling happy' Martin,
that's the main thing,
race hatred, after all, is only an emotional animal response and nothing whatsoever to do with anything distinctively human and contains absolutely no intellectual conteet at all.

It's so easy to 'please' people like you Martin -
- any capacity for individual thought or any individual identity you once had (if ever) has long been indoctrinated out of you and replaced by the standard western propaganda pavlovian response mechanism.

A few years ago it was Iraqi WMD, now its Iranian WMD - what does it matter about the fact the real world hasn't changed at all, it's only your own perceptions of it that has.

I only wish the real world was as simple as the one you inhabit Martin -
- hating secular Iraqis when ordered to
- hating religious Iranians when ordered to

After all,
who needs to think when you're following your orders and submissively believing Rupert Murdoch's latest racist lies and bilge, and getting all worked up angry and emotional about lies and fabrications that don't even exist and never have and never will!

[Martin]

Joe,

You're a funny guy.

It's a pity that you do not know of what, or of whom, you speak.

By the way, my friend, I have very deep roots in the ground where I live. You are the arbiter of neither my place in the world nor my identity.

As the late, great Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr, was wont to say, we shall overcome.

[DrM]

Martin, you seem to be getting off on your own zionist propagandist nonsense. "Dhimmitude" a stupid term coined by zionazi degenerate Bat Yeor. If anything the terror and subjegation these judeofascists brought to Palestine should be called part of goyitude. In closing, why don't you put your glasses on backwards and walk into yourself?

[ainelivia]

Joe, "I only wish the real world was as simple as the one you inhabit Martin -
- hating secular Iraqis when ordered to
- hating religious Iranians when ordered to"

let's all be like you and hate anyone who has the temerity to disagree with us.

" hatred, after all, is only an emotional animal response and nothing whatsoever to do with anything distinctively human and contains absolutely no intellectual conteet at all."

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[joe90]

I'll merely say for the record,
just copying what I say and repeating it back to me, parrot fashion, isn't an argument. It adds nothing to the topic under discusion and tells me nothing about the world I live, except how gullible and easy it is to manipulate brainwashed racist ideologues like yourself.

Just because you reverse my own original meaning, doesn't fill it with any more meaning than it already contained. It only means you are nothing more than an empty, hollow, vessel echoing whatever is in the environment around you.

It is a perfect example of the brainwashing techniques I have been describing, and I love it when I get brainwashed racists like you to start repeating everything after me.

There is nothing more to it than teaching a parrot to mimic human words and having it repeat them back.

And I notice that the rest of the comments you have went to all the trouble of posting on other threads, betray the same susceptibility to mimicing, parrot fashion, whatever I have just said (with the original meaning merely inverted).

A series of completely empty, valueless statements within your continuous on-going extended ad hominum argument. Not a sign of the real world of empirical fact in any them. Mere snapshots of your own indoctrinated degraded psychology.

[ainelivia]

Actually Joe, it is a technique used by psychotherapists in order to have the client actually look at the content of what they themselves say; oh sorry conteet, (wasn't that how you spelled it?) of what they say. It's called "reflecting".

Not that you have demonstrated much in the way of reflection in your comments, and abuse of others on this blog. You accuse others of racism, a projection on others of your own prejudiced and twisted mind. It was thee Joe who was twisting peoples words way back. Why don't you go back to Russia? You will find that things have changed. Apparachniks are out of fashion.

You have not actually been debating any of the subjects that Osama has thrown up for deabte, you have been ensuring that no one is able to debate at all.

And serious debate might be a possibility, if you would cease quoting large paraphrased chunks of books you read in each of your posts.

Whatever brand of brainwashed ideological racist fanaticism you are preaching, we would all be much better off without it.

[joe90]

QED