Eden Springs is an Israeli company that pillages water from the Syrian Golan Heights.
For some reason, the Scottish Parliament buys water from this company.
Sign this petition if you think they should stop.
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Eden Springs is an Israeli company that pillages water from the Syrian Golan Heights.
For some reason, the Scottish Parliament buys water from this company.
Sign this petition if you think they should stop.
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Iraq is set to be debated today for the first time in Westminster since 2003.
You'd think given everything that had happened, that in our democracy it would have come up sometime. But Labour, despite claiming it's been a great succes, have been somewhat reluctant at letting MPs loose on it.
SNP leader Alex Salmond has secured the debate, but it's not any old debate. The terms of it is that Tony Blair should be impeached using arcane Parliamentary rules. Well, at least it calls for a select committee of 7 MPs to be set up to investigate the government's conduct in the meantime.
From what I hear it seems there is a pincer movement forming. If the Lib Dems and the Tories back it, which they should, any kind of rebellion on the Labour benches could be significant.
If you have a hotline to your MP you can use at the lastminute, would be worthwhile getting in touch. Make sure you take your veil off before you phone or email though.
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Technorati Tags: Alex Salmond, Blair, Salmond, SNP, Tony Blair
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I wrote a few weeks ago about MPAC's campaign to get access for women into the country's mosques. No one can argue coherently against it. Moaning about MPAC's tactics will not cut it, especially when the side that wanted to exclude women denied themselves any evidence by demanding that the TV cameras be switched off.
Any theological arguments to justify the status quo are contrived to justify the situation back in Pakistan and other countries which was imported over here. The first generation accepted it, the second though, as with so many things have not.
There is a danger of overstating the impact of mosques opening up will have though. The argument in the film at one point that the outlook of the institutions would be more integrated and outward looking with women being admitted is itself actually a sexist one, as if Muslim men are incapable of running mosques.
Posted in Islam & Muslims | Permalink | Comments (17) | TrackBack (1)
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David Aaronovitch wrote last week in the Times:
I not only think that Jeremiahs such as Liddle, and Melanie Phillips, of the Mail, are wrong, I think their approach could lead us into utter disaster. For a fortnight now we have been discussing veils — so just how many veil-wearing teachers are there? Ten? Five? Just Ms Azmi? What’s the problem for the rest of us once we have (rightly) taken the decision that she cannot teach while looking like a Dalek? Why should a Muslim cab- driver who is (also rightly) being sued for not carrying a guide dog make it to the banner front page of the London Evening Standard? Or a single Muslim chemist who refused to prescribe a “morning-after” Pill get half a page in the Telegraph?
In each case where a minister or an opposition spokesthing has given an opinion on matters Muslim in the past two weeks, I have agreed with much of what they have said, while wishing that they had spread the news more evenly over the national agenda. The interventions in the space of a fortnight, from at least four members of the Government and David Davis, have helped to create an atmosphere of assault. Mr Davis has said, for example, that “there is a growing feeling that the Muslim community is excessively sensitive to criticism”. Maybe, but if everyone says it every day for a week, the sensitivity becomes justified. Try it at home if you don’t believe me.
Unfortunately it came in the same article as this unsubstantiated stat about 12-year-old girls:
...... there are several communities that practise Islam, and in some of them up to one tenth of the girls of school age go missing between primary and secondary school. They’re back in Pakistan getting betrothed ......
On the spate of Muslim stories, Unity and Sunny at PP had good write-ups on the recent story where the Sun claimed that "Muslim yobs" had daubed "F**K OFF" outside the door of British soldiers. Turned out that no Muslim had done anything of the sort. Alarm bells should have been ringing from when the story was first published in the Sun though. Their evidence:
Sources inside Windsor’s Combermere Barracks — where the officers are based — confirmed Muslims had made calls threatening the men.
When someone makes threatening and abusive calls, how on earth do you decipher what religion they are? “Oi soldiers, F*** OFF! By the way, peace be upon you, I’m a Muslim”.
And this week the Scotsman expressed the outrage of Scotland's leading bigoted QC Donald Findlay that a trial was deferred to a later date because two Muslim witnesses were celebrating Eid.
I've now spoken with some lawyers, and indeed trials do get deferred for a lot less. In any case, it is not going to bring down civilisation as we know it, no matter how alarmed readers of the Scotsman get about the "Islamisation of the UK" (their letters page can be a scary place). We're a big country with bags of tradition, we can be relaxed about this.
The reporter did not tell me that one of the Muslims in question was a terror suspect. I stand by my comments in the original article regardless - it is like asking a Christian to come into court on Christmas. It's up to others to determine how much they want to treat Muslims like untermenschen in insisting that they come in regardless.
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Martin Bright is full of praise for Ruth Kelly's recent speeches about Muslims. He even claims that she was influenced by his pamphlet. He isn't so sure about Blair, Brown and Reid's ability to take on Muslims though:
There is no doubt that Blair understood the threat of Islamist ideology earlier than most in the government. But his stubborn refusal to recognise that British and American foreign policy has fuelled radicalisation, particularly through the war in Iraq, raises the suspicion that he is using the argument over Islamism as a smokescreen. Brown, meanwhile, has yet to engage his formidable mind with the problem.
It was only in June that the Chancellor spoke on a joint platform with the MCB celebrating the benefits of Islamic banking - just as his cabinet colleague at the DCLG was coming to the conclusion that she could not work with the organisation in its present incarnation. Reid is working closely with Kelly to develop the new approach. But it is difficult to see how a man who has questioned Britain's commitment to the European Convention on Human Rights and the prohibition of torture can be seen to share "the values we all hold dear".
Kelly's calm reassertion of her position after an angry response from the MCB to her speech shows she has not come to her position lightly. I am told that she spent recent months reading widely on the history of modern political Islam and that she has become fascinated by the subject.
One publication she has read is a short pamphlet I wrote for the think-tank Policy Exchange, When Progressives Treat With Reactionaries. I argued that the government has spent too long engaging with the representatives of an austere form of political Islam forged in the sectarian politics of Pakistan and Bangladesh.
The three most widely publicised works on Islam this year were by Bright, Michael Gove, and Melanie Phillips. We must question the authority with which these people write though. If similarly placed Arabs had written about the West with the kind of expertise and experience these people carry about Islam, they would be quite rightly dismissed.
It is though well overdue that we had weighty pieces of scholarship and indeed shorter pamphlets explaining what Muslims are all about, and what the vision is going forward. No doubt they are as influential as Bright claims. The shame is that it is a struggle to think what can be dished out to give the countervailing argument.
The one who doesn't write is no better than the one who can't write.
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From the Muslim News:
The incident, which is believed to be the first of its kind in the latest wave of Islamophobia attacks in the UK, took place, when the family from Bosnia were loading items in their car at Denham Car Boot Sale, near Uxbridge.
The local police described the shooting, which happened on October 14, as a racial and religious hate crime, but were unable to comment further.
The father of the family told The Muslim News that he was in the car at the time but that his wife and two infant children were standing outside.
“I was more concerned about the children. We adults might not die from a badly aimed bullet, but the children, it could easily have killed them,” the 45-year old father said.
Add to this the attacks on mosques in Manchester, Glasgow, Bucks, Colne, Falkirk, and probably more that we've not heard of. Add to this the numerous incidents of women with hijabs or niqabs that have been attacked.
Anyone care to join the dots and do something about it?
Or is it the case that they'll burn down the mosques at 6'o'clock and we'll all go along like before?
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[John Reid] said the interior ministers wanted to use the internet and other media to target young audiences with messages from "secular Muslim" role models, rather than those believing in radical ideologies.
BBC
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The disclosure is among fresh revelations about how the CIA flew terrorist suspects to locations where they were tortured, and Britain's knowledge of the practice known as "secret rendition". They are contained in Ghost Plane, by Stephen Grey, the journalist who first revealed details of secret CIA flights in the Guardian a year ago. More than 200 CIA flights have passed through Britain, records show.
He describes how one CIA pilot told him that Prestwick airport, near Glasgow, was a popular destination for refuelling stops and layovers. "It's an 'ask-no-questions' type of place and you don't need to give them any advance warning you're coming," the pilot said.
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Thought I would just put up excerpts from this very important article, but proved impossible to be selective. So here's the whole thing, as I'm also not sure the Daily Mail website keeps things up permanantly:
Blair. The veil. And a new low in politics
Great sea changes of thought or opinion are rare in British public life, taking place perhaps only once or twice in a generation.
But there is abundant evidence that we are undergoing one now.
Until only a few months ago, mainstream British politicians were extremely cautious about articulating the fears and resentments felt by many ordinary people on the subject of mass immigration.
Those who spoke out publicly (Enoch Powell's 'rivers of blood' speech is the notorious example) were ostracised. Political parties which raised the issue were thrust beyond the outer margins of debate - the fate of the National Front and the BNP.
This self-restraint has now vanished. Practically every day for the past two weeks, another minister has insulted the customs, habits or religious beliefs of Britain's Muslim minority.
The most recent assault, which came just hours after the subject was discussed at a Cabinet meeting in Downing Street, was launched by Hilary Armstrong on Question Time and came with the full authority of the Prime Minister.
Posted in Islamophobia, Politics | Permalink | Comments (13) | TrackBack (1)
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Lenin follows up on the BBC's promise to be at the court hearing yesterday into the BNP's bomb factory. I'm sure you were all overwhelmed with the media coverage. Also see Pickled Politics.
Also I think this barbed urgent appeal for humanitarian intervention is worthy of reproduction:
655,000 dead, government death squads wiping out families, mass starvation and malnourishment; the government is venal and corrupt, promotes fanatical sectarianism, and hides the true scale of deaths; so far 1.6 million people have had to become refugees. I think we can safely call this a humanitarian catastrophe, so when are the Americans going to invade?
Oh, wait...
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Cardinal O'Brien, leader of Scotland's Catholics:
... the cardinal claims that, as the Pope apologised for the offence caused last month by his comments on the Islamic faith, so Muslims should now step up and say sorry....
"There have been no apologies for the shooting of the nun [in Somalia after the Pope made his remarks], let alone for 9/11 or the London bombings. I would like to see some reciprocal moves from the Islamic side. We shouldn't have to live in fear of attack from Muslims."
Source: Scotland on Sunday
Really twisted logic. The Pope had to apologise for his own personal comments. I’m not sure who would apologise for the bombers to the Cardinal. As if the Cardinal himself bears the responsibility for all those who enter his confessional.
The Pope though still hasn’t actually apologised for his belief in that speech that Islam is a religion that converts by force. I maintained then that the impact on local interfaith relations would depend on how the Catholic Church reacted locally. They had to repudiate that idea.
Muslims want to have good relations with Catholics. We have common causes and as minority communities, shared experiences. Many Catholics draw direct comparison between the prejudice Muslims face and the clampdown on civil liberties as being exactly what they want through not long ago. We’d hope then for the Cardinal’s solidarity particularly during difficult times such as we’ve seen in the last few weeks, rather than seeing him joining in with the attacks.
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Anas Altikriti meets one of the hundreds of Muslims whose homes have been raided by anti-terror cops:
I have met and spoken to a number of such individuals and I have read the stories of many more. It is clear that the experience of being arrested, mostly by brutal, heavy-handed and merciless raids on their homes in the middle of the night, leaves an indelible scar on their lives and on all those who know them. One such suspect told me that his five year old son, who witnessed his dad being held down and beaten severely on the back by four heavily armed anti-terror officers at 4 am in the morning whilst others ransacked the small household, is still afraid of sitting on his lap two years on from his release from his seven month term in a Belmarsh prison cell.
His own family members are confused and extremely afraid, his neighbours even more so and the community has never allowed him to "slip back" quietly into the life he used to have before the incident. Previously a professional IT expert with a prosperous career ahead of him, now he claims unemployment benefit and stares into the abyss of a broken life and an uncertain future.
Posted in Human rights | Permalink | Comments (1) | TrackBack (0)
Technorati Tags: civil liberties
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The Herald today pick up on the growing complaints of police harassment from Dundee Muslims.
Meanwhile, the Home Office have got back on the Freedom of Information request following reports that 3000 Muslim homes had been raided:
Dear Sir/ Madam,
Thank you for your e-mail of 29/08/06 12:07:05 in which you ask how many homes have been raided since the introduction of the Terrorism Act 2000.
I am unable to provide you with details on this because the Home Office does not collate data on the number of search warrants issued under the Terrorism Act 2000.
John Reid does have a lot to sort out.
Lastly for just now, a quick comment on the UK has become the "number one al-Qaeda target" story which started off on the front page of yesterday's Guardian and ended up everywhere, including the BBC. I can't ascertain why this is news as no one is quoted at all. I thought the BBC in particular now had rules on single-sourced unattributed stories. Or maybe that only applies to stories that the government doesn't like.
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Technorati Tags: BBC, civil liberties
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George Bush, the US president, has signed a law legalising the use of secret CIA prisons, harsh interrogation practices and military trials against suspected 'terrorists'.
Bush called the Military Commissions Act of 2006 "one of the most important pieces of legislation in the war on terror" as he signed it into law at the White House on Tuesday.
The new law means Bush can continue a secret CIA programme for interrogating terrorism suspects.
The White House has refused to describe what interrogation techniques will be allowed or banned.
Bush said the law will also allow intelligence professionals to question suspects without fear of being sued by them later.
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Right now, we're getting it badly wrong - bombarding Muslims with pressure and prejudice, laying one social problem after another at their door. I try to imagine how I would feel if this rainstorm of headlines substituted the word "Jew" for "Muslim": Jews creating apartheid, Jews whose strange customs and costume should be banned. I wouldn't just feel frightened. I would be looking for my passport.
He's right - Muslims are doing exactly that.
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Interesting that the Church of England keep popping up the current "debate" on multiculturalism, integration and the veil.
Aishah Azmi's was suspended from a CoE school for wearing the veil. More substantially, it was them that first flew the kite about the 25% attendance of non-CoE members at their schools. The government are now making this compulsory for all new faith schools.
In reality, this is directed at new Islamic schools. Faith schools of other denominations are not on the same rise, and if it was intended to be fair, why apply it only to new schools? Surely existing CoE schools could from now on make sure their first year intake had 25% set aside?
Dr Daud Abdullah picks up on the CoE angle in today's Guardian:
In such charged circumstances, people might hope to hear words of tolerance from others of faith. But alas, the Church of England has added to the confusion. The Archbishop of York, John Sentamu, demanded that Muslims do more to integrate; then a "leaked" document criticised the government's multi-faith policy for allegedly pandering to Muslims at the expense of Christians.
Maybe the CoE have joined the Catholic Church in thinking that the cosy interfaith happiness dead.
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Further evidence, if any was needed, of the dark heart at the centre of the government. Race relations minister, repeat race relations minister, Phil Woolas wades into the row over the suspended Muslim teaching assistant to say that she should be sacked.
To get the government to normally comment on matters pertaining to local authorities is not easy, there are protocols with this kind of thing. Sticking the boot further into Muslims allows it though.
Government attacks have left the Muslim community figuratively and literally battered and bruised. The adjacent picture is of the Glasgow imam who was attacked in a west end mosque on Friday. Falkirk mosque was deliberately set ablaze last week. The Independent catalogues an alarming number of other incidents. The bigots on the ground are taking their lead from the bully-boy antics of the government.
Personally I've got sympathy with Aishah Azmi when she complains that it is society that is now segregating her off when she is out there, holding down a job, helping bilingual kids. That she didn't wear the veil to her job interview has been reported as if it would have been legitimate grounds on which to not recruit her.
Woolas says that it's sexist of her to wear the veil in front of men. I presume he gets changed at the swimming baths in front of the ladies then. Don't know if they'd appreciate that equality of opportunity though.
Posted in Islamophobia, Politics | Permalink | Comments (19) | TrackBack (0)
Technorati Tags: Jack Straw, niqab, veil
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I've got a comment as one of the 100 Scottish "key opinion-formers" on the issue of independence in today's Scotsman.
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Absolutely astonishing reply received by Lenin from the BBC as to why they failed to report the story of the BNP bomb factory.
The BBC, the country's leading news broadcaster, said they hadn't heard about it.
It's funny how the most trivial of stories can make it to the top of the news agenda. Just a few days ago we had the non-story of PC Basha who wasn't stationed at the Israeli embassy being lead story. Difference in this BNP case is the police didn't see it fit to leak it to their favoured organs.
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If it wasn't abundantly clear before, it should be now. There is a concerted strategy by the government to bring forward weekly initiatives to say basically the same thing - that the Muslim community is full of terrorists, and they are being complacent about it.
Ever since Muslim leaders got together in August after the Heathrow alert to send a letter to the PM calling for a change in foreign policy to deal with the terror threat, the government has vowed never to be caught on the backfoot like that again. The narrative has to be about what Muslims must do, and how the government can "assist".
John Reid is seen as Blair's successor because of his putting of Muslims into their place. Jack Straw tried to get a piece of the action in his bid for the deputy leadership, and not to be outdone, Gordon Brown put the boot in a few days ago too. Now, up again has stepped Ruth Kelly.
These extremists that the government keep speaking about, won't they just be loving the way the government treat the Muslim community? Because the meanness isn't leading to keenness. But then we know that this government isn't too bothered about giving space to those who would cause mayhem.
A quick breakdown of yesterday's speech:
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Managed to find Jack Straw's whole article. Reads like something colonial from the days of the Raj.
But he's also hopelessly ill-informed:
And women as well as men went head uncovered the whole time when in their Hajj – pilgrimage – in Mecca.
Head uncovered? I thought this was about the niqab, the veil covering the face. Because it's certainly not true - women do not uncover their heads during the Hajj.
There are other troubling parts to his argument:
Continue reading "Straw doesn't know his head from his face" »
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Technorati Tags: hijab, Jack Straw, niqab
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Spare a thought today for the poor women that Jack Straw exposed in more ways than one yesterday. They may wear the niqab for all sorts of reasons, but the minimum that will be happening to them within their families is a sense of embarrassment at Straw's revelation that he disrobed them, and maybe worse.
But Straw doesn't care, as long as he gets his "debate". It's absurd how these ministers keep popping up calling for a debate in their speeches and articles, only for them to slink back into their Westminster bubble after opening up a hornet's nest.
We do need a debate about a lot of things regarding the Muslim community, but not with Jack Straw choosing the topic and the timing. He's had thirty years to raise these points of advice with his Muslim constituents, but chooses now, in a newspaper article to do it.
We are witnessing a spiralling race to the bottom as to which party can malign the Muslim community the most. The Tories have professed reform on the environment, sexuality, racism and social justice, but their new found optimism does not extend to the Muslim community.
Posted in Islamophobia, Politics | Permalink | Comments (44) | TrackBack (1)
Technorati Tags: Conservatives, David Cameron, Islam, Jack Straw, Muslims, niqab, veil
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I have two questions.
First, who leaked this story to the press, and what effect did they hope to produce?
Second, why are news sources concentrating on the fact that the officer was a Muslim?
It seems to me that the important feature of this officer’s identity was not that he was a Muslim... He was excused from guarding the Israeli embassy during the Israeli invasion of Lebanon because his wife is Lebanese.
(...) Someone within the police, presumably occupying a senior position, is an anti-Muslim racist. This person is presumably riding on a significant amount of support from police officers who are either stupid dupes or fellow anti-Muslim racists.
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A Muslim-owned dairy has been targeted by youths over three nights in a campaign of harassment culminating in a petrol bombing, a worker said.
The Medina in Windsor, Berkshire, has suffered at the hands of local youths who have been targeting staff for the past three nights, the unnamed worker claimed.
He said the youths would gather in gangs of up to 30 and throw stones and hurl abuse at staff working at the dairy late at night.
Police have been patrolling the area since Monday when the attacks started, he said.
But on Wednesday night an attacker riding a motorbike threw a home-made petrol bomb at the dairy's perimeter wall.
Newsnight had a report on this last night, which Kirsty Wark introduced saying that the incident "indicates a distrust and lack of communication". Rory Winter via email informs me that Alex Thomson on Channel 4 News said that it "tells us much about Islam in Britain today".
Nowhere else would we see the victims of crime being blamed for their plight in this way. Good luck in finding any journalist calling a spade a spade and using the word "Islamophobia".
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The decision of Stirling Council to deny 13-year-old Reece Swain a free bus pass to go to school because he is not a Catholic is a complete nonsense. The boy had a pass in his first year to go to the Catholic St Modan's High, but has been taken away now after his faith status was uncovered.
I hope the Catholic Church or someone in authority somewhere comes out and condemns this fast. It does a disservice to faiths and faith schools.
David Cameron yesterday called for Muslims to follow the example of the Church of England in allocating 25% of their school places to non-Christians. Personally, I don't have a problem with this in principle. I've said from the beginning that Scotland's first state Muslim school must be open to all, and indeed if it is the successful school we anticipate and want it to be, it would be natural that people would want to send their children there.
The aim is not about segregating kids out. We should actually probably stop calling them 'Muslim schools', as that denotes that it's about people. What the campaign is actually about is to have a school with a unique set of values based on Islam. I can well understand people's concerns about segregation, even if I do not agree with them myself. But this about having an Islamic school, not a Muslim-only school.
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Tony Blair says that before he is to leave office, he will dedicate himself to "advancing peace between Israel and Palestine". Let me offer him some advice then. On Israel's side, their main gripes are well known:
Hamas for their part have observed a ceasefire in terms of martyrdom operations for two years now. They have said that if Israel withdraw from territories occupied in 1967, to the UN green line, then there will be a longstanding peace, with final issues decided by future generations.
Israel have refused. Thus far, no one in the international community have held them to task for this. The Hamas offer seems like a good proposal. However, the dominant narrative is about humiliating Hamas into making an explicit statement recognising Israel, despite the fact that their above proposal would de facto recognise them anyway. Hamas have gone a damn sight further in recognising Israel than Israel have gone in recognising Palestine.
Hamas will not go further than they have because in doing so, they know that Israel will simply add another bullet point to the ones above, and then the "international community" will talk only about how that can be met. Time for Israel to stop making excuses. Blair and friends need to have some long overdue harsh words with their Israeli friends.
Talking about Israel withdrawing from "parts" of the West Bank is not good enough, and indeed contrary to international law. Those who say "parts" of the WB should remain with Israel need to explain why. Israel has no business in the West Bank. Get them out, and you have peace.
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Technorati Tags: Hamas, Israel, Palestine, West Bank
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Why doesn't Mahmoud Abbas get condemned for having a militia? His party's terror branch, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, has just threatened to assassinate Hamas leaders.
There can be extreme reactions to losing an election, but Fatah's long sulk takes some beating. Since the result in February they've been in talks with Israel and the US about destabilising the Hamas government.
It's one thing for the Quartet to reject Hamas's election. It's another for Abbas to reject the judgement of the same voters who put him into office.
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According to Bob Woodward's new book, Bush and Blair were set on having former CIA and MI6 agent Iyad Allawi elected as Iraqi President. Bush apparently couldn't swing a CIA operation in the US, so he hollered "Yo Blair":
That is when, according to Woodward, President Bush turned to British Prime Minister Tony Blair. He reportedly assured Bush that he would take care of the matter. He dispatched two operatives to Baghdad to aid the election campaign of Allawi, then heading the Iraqi National Alliance composed primarily of secular Shias.
Quoting Dilip Hiro at CiF
How did these operatives aid the campaign? Woodward's allegations suggest Blair was at the steering wheel of this. Questions to answer.
Gary Younge:
Let's start by talking about how they don't want to integrate. The stubborn rump of around 10% of whites who, according to a 2002 Mori poll, are hostile to racial equality and antagonistic to the very existence of non-white people in this country. Given a percentage point either way, that is the consistent figure who believe that to be truly British you must be white and who do not believe it is important to respect the rights of minority groups.
Let's discuss their inability to choose moderate leaders and the propensity of the leaders they do choose to murder innocent civilians abroad by their thousands. Let's analyse their vulnerability to extremists such as the British National party, not to mention elsewhere in Europe, where fascism is once again a mainstream ideology.
Let's talk about the religious intolerance that rages in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and can be found in the highest levels of the state, where only Protestants can marry into royalty. And let's not forget the terrorists white people have been rearing at home for years, whether they are bombing Brick Lane, parliament or shopping centres in Manchester, and the no-go areas in housing estates, football terraces and boardrooms.
Only then perhaps will it become sufficiently apparent for those with insufficient imagination just how crude and crass the framing of the debate about Muslims has been. Any group of people will rightly bristle at the demand to answer collectively for the acts of individuals with whom they share an identity but over whom they have no control.
The tolerant, secular, liberal society into which Muslims are being asked to integrate lies somewhere between mythology and a work in progress and, the responsibility for transforming it into a lived reality lies with all of us. When it comes to poor whites lured by organised racism, Labour makes allowances.
'It is the poorest whites who feel the greatest anger because there is no way out for them," said Margaret Hodge about some of her constituents in Barking earlier this year. "The Labour party hasn't talked to these people. Part of the reason they switch to the BNP is they feel no one else is listening to them."
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