Channel 4's Women Only Jihad

I wrote a few weeks ago about MPAC's campaign to get access for women into the country's mosques. No one can argue coherently against it. Moaning about MPAC's tactics will not cut it, especially when the side that wanted to exclude women denied themselves any evidence by demanding that the TV cameras be switched off.

Any theological arguments to justify the status quo are contrived to justify the situation back in Pakistan and other countries which was imported over here. The first generation accepted it, the second though, as with so many things have not.

There is a danger of overstating the impact of mosques opening up will have though. The argument in the film at one point that the outlook of the institutions would be more integrated and outward looking with women being admitted is itself actually a sexist one, as if Muslim men are incapable of running mosques.

The problem is that the men in charge of mosques are people who were very good at building them, but extremely poor at community relations. This task would be best carried out by the second generation, but it is not only young Muslim women who are excluded from the levers of power on mosque committees - it is young Muslim men too. Remember half of all Muslims are under 25 - this is nowhere near reflected on these bodies, where you would struggle normally to find anyone under the age of 40.

Asghar Bukhari said that if the mosques opened up, 50% of our community talent would be able to contribute. This is to fundamentally misunderstand how community power is wielded at the moment. MPAC themselves continually lament how ineffectual our mosques are in leading the community. In the last few years they have been bypassed when it has come to necessary grassroots initiatives, and it has been left to second-generation set-ups such as MPAC themselves, Stop Political Terror, the anti-war protesters and projects such as the upcoming Islam Awareness Week and Radio Ramadan to reach out on the issues that matter.

Women must be allowed into the mosques, but let's not say that's the only problem that our mosques have. It's a symptom of the problem, not the core issue itself.

Comments

[Muslimicity]

Good post, and your right, moaning about the way mpac do things just won't cut it.

I'm writing my own review of this documentary. But i like your wise words!

[Bilal Patel]

I agree with the comments in your last posting on this subject that MPAC went about this totally the wrong way. I speak as someone who has helped them in their campaigns on more than one occassion, and I know Blackburn quite well as I have relatives there and grew up in neighbouring Preston. A few points:

1. There are many masjids who provide facilities for women (in varying degrees) but the programme did not discuss this.

2. MPAC is getting slated from people who agree with their aims, but totally disagree with their methods on this one.

3. There is a definite issue of MPAC's conduct, including Asghar shouting at the elder Muslim sister at the Lancashire Council of Mosques meeting.

4. Despite MPAC's repeated assertions about lack of facilities, in Blackburn we saw at least one place where women gather to pray. Their conduct was in striking contrast to MPAC's.

5. You do not encourage dialogue and discussion with someone by taking them by surprise with TV cameras in tow.

6. There is an issue about whether MPAC was taking any action until they were approached by C4.

7. Why target Blackburn? During the last election, MPAC had physical run-ins with the locals there. Was Blackburn targeted because the producers expected a similar response for more interesting TV?

I have had enough experience with the media in order to be cynical about this documentary. It wasn't all bad, but it caused more harm than good.

[aafreen]

Bilal dont you read the mpac site they have been talking about these two mosques for years i remember getting emails about Balfour road mosque five years ago! And i have been to Blackburn i had to pray in the library meditation room. And the programme did talk about mosques that provide access they showed them for example Finsbury park. It seems everyone is bashing mpac no one is condemning the man in the prayer cap that said f*** off to them! And that elderly sister shouted at them first she was shouting at mpac rep on channel 4 news too. No one mentions the the other non-mpacers interviews or the womens refuge all their views vindicated what mpac had been saying. At least mpac are doing something you have to break a few eggs to make an ommlette...so many Muslims simply sit and complain and do nothing.

[Bilal Patel]

AA.

With respect, but the LCM was more than accommodating under the circumstances when it invited MPAC into a meeting to discuss access to women, under the glare of the cameras. The LCM lady made the perfectly fair, if strong, point that she was angry about the way that this was conducted. From then it turned into a slanging match and it was left to another LCM sister to actually calm the situation.

That is the general approach to this documentary which I found was designed to provoke rather than actually achieve any real objectives.

You talk about the women's refuge. Yet the programme mentioned that violence towards women is not higher in Muslim communities than in other places. I know it doesn't help if women do not have access to support, but the programme conflated violence towards women with their lack of access to the masjids to pray which I think is dishonest.

There are a couple of glaring questions which MPAC must answer:

(a) Were MPAC's filmed activities instigated and directed by the C4 crew?

(b) Is it right, as another brother claimed, that in Blackburn, the women were allowed inside the masjid because there was a sister's talk going on, but remained inside for only 10 minutes?

[aafreen]

with respect you have jumped on the bandwagon of simply scrutinising and criticising mpac...its very well saying mpac have the wrong approach they have made their point at least people are talking about this valid issue. Where do we go from here?

Were MPAC's filmed activities instigated and directed by the C4 crew?

i dont understand why would they be? can mpac not think for themselves? They went to these mosques many times not only with the tv crews i have read all the accounts on the website maybe you think they were written by channel 4? Did channel 4 tell to campaign against jack traw in operation muslim vote?

As for talking about mosques in reference to domestic violence (mpac didnt do that) refuges have already done that i have heard sisters haven discussing this on Islam channel.

I dont understand what bearing your second question has on the issue.

Think ill of mpac if you wish lots of people are venting their anger at them and holding them accountable/ demanding a change, they are being allowed to post their comments on the site, many are abusing mpac the irony is lost to people they would not be allowed to voice their opinions in many mosques just as mpac werent they were abused-but that has been overlooked.

[aafreen]

with respect you have jumped on the bandwagon of simply scrutinising and criticising mpac...its very well saying mpac have the wrong approach they have made their point at least people are talking about this valid issue. Where do we go from here?

Were MPAC's filmed activities instigated and directed by the C4 crew?

i dont understand why would they be? can mpac not think for themselves? They went to these mosques many times not only with the tv crews i have read all the accounts on the website maybe you think they were written by channel 4? Did channel 4 tell to campaign against jack traw in operation muslim vote?

As for talking about mosques in reference to domestic violence (mpac didnt do that) refuges have already done that i have heard sisters haven discussing this on Islam channel.

I dont understand what bearing your second question has on the issue.

Think ill of mpac if you wish lots of people are venting their anger at them and holding them accountable/ demanding a change, they are being allowed to post their comments on the site, many are abusing mpac the irony is lost to people they would not be allowed to voice their opinions in many mosques just as mpac werent they were abused-but that has been overlooked.

[Bilal Patel]

Afreen

"i dont understand why would they be? can mpac not think for themselves? They went to these mosques many times not only with the tv crews i have read all the accounts on the website maybe you think they were written by channel 4? Did channel 4 tell to campaign against jack traw in operation muslim vote?"

They might well have done. I've been in situations where the film crew or the producers have tried to engineer incidents, so it's a perfectly pertinent question.

I've worked with MPAC on operation Muslim Vote in Blackburn. I can tell you from personal experience that whilst the intentions might have been good, the impact was minimal.

This is not about slagging off Muslims for doing something. MPAC has a lot of energy and this is good. But I can't help thinking that as much as MPAC like calling people to be held to account, they don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot.

[Bilal Patel]

Also, you mention that people are talking about this valid issue.

That's true, but it's not a discussion when you're pushing at an open door because most of the hostile criticism comes from people who agree that women should have a choice to go to the masjid.

You ask where we go from here. Well, having a mature approach and actually working with other organisations instead of slagging them off in front of the TV cameras (what was the MCB's sin?) might be a way forward.

[utbah]

" they don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot." Bilal seriously are you having a luagh. Look at their website, look at how many comments they have released which at shows they allowing for the Muslim Community to vent their feedback to them.

At the moment the Muslim blood is hot let it calm down and lets see where this can go.

[ainelivia]

Until Osama mentioned this in a previous post, I had no idea this was the situation. I assumed that women went to mosque, and prayed seperately. In my husband's families country, as a non-Muslim I was allowed entry to the central mosque, so I had no idea that this was not the case generally.

This program was very informative. Anyone who imagined that Muslim women are the stereotype that is portrayed generally should hopefully now see that is not the case. These women were joyful, energetic and in no way aggressive in pursuing their aims.

Whatever the internal discomfort with the program, or the way Muslims were portrayed, I hope that on the issue of women in Islam, the non-Muslim world can now see that (to borrow a phrase from a song) "the sisters are doing it for themselves".

However I hope that outsiders (media and tv) are not going to wade into the issue with their big boots, this is an issue that needs to be addressed from inside the community without outside interference.

[aafreen]

I've worked with MPAC on operation Muslim Vote in Blackburn. I can tell you from personal experience that whilst the intentions might have been good, the impact was minimal.

ok then tell mpac to pack up and stop all they are doing!!! How much impact do you make on the ummah? My Iraqi friend saw operation muslim vote she cried when Asghar sopke about Iraqi mothers she felt so happy that someone cared.

As for holding them to account thats what people are doing on their website and can do if they meet them ( i have met the mpacers they listened very nicely to everythign i had to say) the mosques are the ones that dont like accountability and you are holding mpac to account for demonstrating that?? i dont understand all this criticism i have been reading the site and some people are so upset and making personal comments about the way the sisters dressed etc many muslim werent even this upset at the 7/7 bombers! i just dont understand what the fuss is about the documentary has aired and the issue is firmly on the agenda now lets go from here..if you think mpac have little impact then withdraw your support why did you work them in the first place?

[ainelivia]

aafreen wrote "i dont understand all this criticism i have been reading the site and some people are so upset and making personal comments about the way the sisters dressed".

aafreen, I wouldn't worry about these "side-issues", those who want to get off the "core issue" will always try and bring in something to get people off course. And it was fairly churlish to take issue with someone's appearance, in order to deviate from what is the stated reason for the meeting.

In the programme one thing that grated with me was the way that the committe took issue with the "method", and yet suggested no constructive alternative. And the way I see it is if the mosque committe's reason for agreeing to the meeting was to find some common ground in order to meet the needs of the women and move on, this was not the way to achieve that.

[Hassan Saleemi]

Assalamu alaykum,

Agreed women should not be barred from masaajid, and such a practice is despicable in general, but there is 1 point many people miss. For Salat al-Jumu'ah, if there is little space, as is the case in almost every masjid, it should be reserved for men, because the Salah of Jumuah is fard on men, not women. Why should women be allowed to perform a mustahhab prayer at the potential expense of a man's fardh prayer?

[aafreen]

excellent points ainelivia many of negative comments reflect the same weakness, we agree with women rights but we dont really want to do anything about it and we dont like the way mpac do it! so where do we go from here? people are threatening to withdraw support mpac, insulting the sisters, moaning etc how will that help ummah?

[aafreen]

Hassan this isnt just about jumah prayer i know that is farz for men i would not jeopardise that but i would like go to the mosque at other times even if its just once a week or month for prayer/talk have other services to be completed excluded and called 'fitnah' like mpac sisters were called is just so awful. I think MCB survey showed 58 percent or something like that do not allow women in and even more have no services (and some mosques are great i read about one that even had hair dressing services for women that is so thoughtful really!)we should make mosques as good as they can be i know there are space/funding issues but at least we are now talking about it we need a plan and i think mpacs is quite good:
http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/663/39/

[Osama]

Not convinced about parts of that MPAC manifest aafreen.

Mainly about the media units in each mosque. Even churches and synagogues leave this to bigger umbrella bodies, and resources in the Muslim community are even more scarce.

And after everything MPAC has been saying about womens' rights in the last few days, surely this is a mistake:

9) The imams and Mosque staff must be the best men from the community, religious Scholars/Activists/Managers with excellent knowledge not only of Islam but also of British society and the English language. The minimum wage for the Imam or Mosque Management Team would be £30,000. To attract and retain the best man for the job we must be prepared to pay a fair wage. The community would be taught to pay a good wage for a decent service to the community.

:)

[aafreen_uk]

what wrong with a media centre in the bigger mosques that could manage it East london mosques do press releases it would be really good resource to counter Islamophobia in media, talk to local newspapers, appoint spokespeople etc....i think that is good idea.

Lol on your second point that is funny! yes must be mistake of course imams must be men i think they must have been thinking just about those that lead prayer... should tell them to amend it!!