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27 September 2006

Comments

Sunny

What is clear is that many nations in the region are being played like a fiddle by Israel at the moment.

Or, as is more likely, it is politics as usual by the Arab states who engage with countries based more on protecting their interests than any over-arching narrative you would like. As they have always done.

If the Saudis want to be loved, being the subservient wife of Israel isn't going to do it

Feeling a bit naive today Osama? Even Pakistan has been in discussions with Israel for years. That does not make them anyone's wife. The people can be manipulated easily, just get one of the big Saudi mecca imams to issue the right fatwa.

joe90

One US Puppet Regime colluding with another US Puppet Regime is not anything new. This is the way the US system of control of Middle East oil is supposed to work. These puppet states are typically strong enough to keep their own people down and themselves in power, but are kept deliberately weak so that they need US support if they want to stay in power.

What is new is these open hints, by the Israeli PM no less, that there are is kind of contact going on between Israel and the House of Fraud, and no denial by Saudi Arabia seems to be forthcoming.


The US used to control Middle East oil via its Israeli and Arab puppet regimes. Bush and the Neo-Cons decided on a more hands on approach with disasterous results for them and their objectives, all contained in this document -
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0920-05.htm>Full Text: Bush's National Security Strategy

The Bolshevik Vanguard Party of the Bush and the Neo-Cons were going to remake the face of the earth and change history with their talk of 'full spectrum dominance', 'shock and awe' and 'preventative war' (ie attack anybody you feel like even if they're no threat, such as Iraq was).

Just one lightly armed, unorganised resistence movement, such as in Iraq, and the whole project has crashed to the ground. All the US Puppet Regimes in the region are feeling vulnerable with regards to their number one enemy, their own population. Hence, they are looking to each other for help. The US has been shown to be completely hopeless, vulnerable and has exposed its undemocratic and racist US Middle East regimes to unnecessary risks.

Israel, America's chief Middle East lynchpin, and its illegal racially-sterilised colonies have been driven out of Gaza by the Palestinian Resistence Movement. Hezbollah has shown that Israel has no defence to its rear, against rocket attacks, and is also unable to hold any ground against Hezbollah in a land invasion.

The response by Hezbollah to Israeli attacks on Gaza after one of its (French Passport holding) soldiers was captured by the Palestinian Resistence Movment, showed the solidarity of purpose and care that the people have for each other who have been suffering abuse at the hands of the US and its stooges in the region. The future certainly isn't looking rosy for the US and its Middle East Puppets, up against the various Resistence Movements in the occupied Middle East.

All the best Osama!

ps
There are 3 religious fundamentalist regimes in the world
1 - the US
2 - Israel
3 - Saudi Arabia

Can you see the common denominator here?
That's right, America!
So much for the threat from fundamentalist extremists - how true, but not in the way western propaganda would have us believe.

Sunny

Joe you forgot to bash Indians again, c'mon mate keep up!

Just one lightly armed, unorganised resistence movement, such as in Iraq

Ahh yes, I forgot the 'resistance' movement. The movement that continues blowing up Iraqis during the month of Ramazan.

DrM

Since when did Sunny become an Indian? I thought you were a imperial brown sahib. I bet you really about Iraqis getting killed, and ofcourse its always the resistance, and not the "shock and awe" crowd.

thabet

Angry Arab has been highlighting this Saudi-Israeli relationship for months in his own mocking way.

Sadat

This stage-managed leak is yet another proof of the New World Order facing the Ummah where Muslims and Hanifs are fighting a historic struggle against the evil alliance of Kafirs and Munafiqs.

joe90

Exactly guys,
it's a common misconception that the Israeli government and the other governments of the region are at loggerheads - with a few obvious exceptions (Syria and Iran) they aren't. They all follow American orders.

Israel and the other regimes are US Puppet Regimes, nothing more. If democracy was really introduced to the likes of Jordan, House of Fraud, Egypt, Qatar (although this wee regime is getting a lot of my respect at the mo - it stood out against the US in a recent UN Security Council resolution of over the phoney Iran nuclear programme issue) then all these US client regimes would be swpet out of their cosy little seats of power by their Enemey Number 1, there own populations.

Turkey, that other very important US client regime has some form of democracy hence the refusl of the Turkish government to allow the US to use it as a base to illegally invade Iraq from the north. I am sure yu rememebr this way back in 2002. The US Neo-con adminstration went absolutely ballistic at the Turks for not following their orders, as handed out to them, by The Great White Father in his House in Washington.

And just look at the great people of Palestine. Look who they voted for when given a relatively free choice at their recent election, and look at the consequences they have had to suffer for voting for a political organisation that care more about their own people than they do about following their US orders. Disobedience is the ultimate crime according to self-styled leaders of the free-world in Washington and the Pentagon. Which is why the great Palestinian People must suffer collective punishment, until such times as Abu Abbas and the PLO can undermine the democratically elected government of Palestine, and deliver up anything that remains of occupied Palestinian resources to the racist Israeli regime.

That is the trouble though - Hamas and Hezbollah have dared to resist the Masters of the Universe in the Pentagon, so they must be made an example of to the rest of the people of the regime. Disobedience and resistence is futile. Follow your orders or else. Except that the great Palestinian People, now in the form of Hamas, are unbreakable (in the great words of georgeous George Galloway).

Now, the resistance in Afghanistan and Iraq have joined in the fun as well. It is no wonder the rats in the sinking ship of US neo-con ambitions are all scurrying around trying to hang onto each other for survival, as in the case of the House of Fraud and the Israeli Fourth Reich. Attacking popular governments and undermining democracy in the Middle East is no longer a formula that works.

I have heard that the pre-planned attack on Lebanon was meant to put in place an Israeli puppet government. Thus Israel's influence would stretch from their own racially-sterilised eugenically-engineered utopia, up through Lebanon and link with their clients in the Kurdish area of Iraq.

As for western propaganda about the Iraqi resistence being the main cause of violence and death in occupied Iraq, here are those groovy dudes at MediaLens.org with the real facts of the case -
http://www.medialens.org/alerts/06/060817_burying_the_insurgency.php>The BBC, Insurgent Attacks And The New York Times

All the best guys!

Veritas

Iranians have been running empires since Adam was a boy. It is quite obvious their Shia revolution is just raw secular Iranian nationalism wrapped up in religion to fool the naive.

Veritas

Iranians have been running empires since Adam was a boy. It is quite obvious their Shia revolution is just raw secular Iranian nationalism wrapped up in religion to fool the naive.

joe90

First and foremost, the Islamic Revolution in Iran was a direct reaction to the US Puppet totalitarian regime of the former Shah of Iran. A revolution incidently that the US and western intelligence agencies never seen coming, which tells you something about how competent they are at their job ie they are totally hopeless.

If you remember, Iran used to have a groovy wee democracy going, back in 1956 which was very popular, indeed, among Iranians. Unfortunately, being popular with the general public in the Global South-Third World (I hope you don't mind my using these descriptions - I prefer the Global South myself) and also having to follow Western orders are normally incompatible.

If Global South governments, such as Iran, want to be popular in the west they have to follow their western orders which always involves them in handing over the wealth and resources of the country to its rightful legal owners, the investors and shareholders of Wall St and the City of London.

Global South governments who actually carry out the wishes of their own local electorate and use and direct the wealth of the country on their people, rather than depositing it into the bank accounts of rich western corporations and anonymous Swiss bank accounts, are known as extremists, radicals and suchlike.

Blood-thirsty torturing mass-murdering maniacs ,like the former Shah of Iran on the other hand, are regarded in the west, as responisble world statesmen and the very model of stability and peace. Any movement that removed this despicable US Puppet from power, without clear authorisation from Washington, is clearly dangerous and extremist. The fact the Islamic Revolutionary Movement may be popular with the locals of Iran has nothing to do with anything. The ultimate crime in the eyes of the US is disobedience - this was Saddam Hussein's only crime and the one he was punished for in 1991.

Disobedience was also the crime the great Prez of Egypt, Gamal Abdul Nasser was guilty of, and he was a nationalist, not a religionist. His great crime was to nationalise the Suez canal which was the property, not of Egpytians, but western investers and shareholders.

joe90

Ahh yes, I forgot the 'resistance' movement. The movement that continues blowing up Iraqis during the month of Ramazan.

Here are some other people who forget the Iraqi resistence Movement when it suits their purpose. None other than the US Bush Adminstration, in order to show that their self-proclaimed 'Global War on Terrorism' is working they deliberately ignore what they themselves refer to as terrorism and and terrorist attacks going on inside Iraq.


http://www.counterpunch.com/blum09262006.html>"Thank You for Not Putting a Bomb in Your Luggage"
If It's Election Season, It Must Be Time for a Terror Alert
By WILLIAM BLUM

"President Bush said the United States is still under the threat of attack and will continue to be right up until Election Day."
-- Jay Leno

According to the Butcher of Baghdad, Prez George Bilge, terrorism has and is declining!

ainelivia

"According to the Butcher of Baghdad, Prez George Bilge, terrorism has and is declining"

Joe, what is unfortunately not declining is the volume, verbosity and preaching nature of your responses.

Veritas only wrote two sentences here. And you are off and running.

Take it easy mate, you'll wear yourself out.

joe90

And your point is what ainelivia?

What would constitute the proper length of reply?

You really should try and restrain your urge to write pompous tabloid rhetoric or find your victim guilty of the crime you yourself are guilty of. The fact you having nothing of sunbasnce to say doesn't seem to prevent you from the practice of empty verbosity etc etc

Why should I practice self-restraint?

What would constitute an acceptable comment length, and what makes you an authority on the subject of someone's right to engage in serious dialogue and free expression?

You don't have to read anything I write - there is no compunction on you to do so. I perish the thought that you were trying to heckle me, or trying to censor what I have to say by the use of mindless, childish anti-democratic tactics, because that would hypocrisy on your part, given your stout defence of UK Home Secretary John Reid and his right to pontificate and bore his victims at New Labour PR stunts in East London recently.

If there is anything I have said that doesn't make sense or is wrong please correct my statements, my evidence or my arguments for me. As you have nothing to say on the matters I have just written about I'll take it they are correct.

As all you have done is throw mud at me, I'll take it then that you have nothing of substance to contribute except playground behaviour and taunts. Consistency and practicing what you preach aren't you're strongest characteristics.

ainelivia

There was a saying I recall was popular a few years back, if you can't take it, don't give it........

I really seem to have rankled your feathers, on something, but I'm not sure what it was exactly, ah yes, you have not actually said.

Your passive aggressive tactics do you proud, it's the sense of humour that is lacking..... or is it just the male ego that's been dented....

joe90

QED

Mohammad

I disagree with you that the confilct in Lebanon was not sunni/shia based. The problem is that Hezbollah is a shia exclusive group that is operating outside of the government in an independant country. I also disagree with you about how Iran rose to power. Let's not forget who was helping the Iranians against the Shah. And the whole mess between Iran and Iraq.

joe90

Well, most of those are just assertions and you haven't produced any evidence to substantiate your claims Mohammed.

The fact that Hezbollah is able to defend itself, and its community, againt Israeli racist aggression is to be commended. The fact that the Lebanese government is unable to defend its own terroritory against decades of Israeli racist aggression and atricties is a matter for regret. I completely agree, but let's not forget who the aggressors are. The agressors have never been the Lebanese government or the South Lebanese Resistence Movement. The aggressors and violators of international law and order have always been the Israeli racist regime.

As the great Robert Fisk said, the Shia community in south Lebanon were as docile as a doormat until the Israeli government started attacking and invading Lebanon, after the Israel government was forced to make peace with Egpyt in 1978, and thus knew it's southern border was secure.

The rise of the Lebanese southern resistence has clear and unambigious corollary with Israeli international raist war crimes and terrorism. Likewise, US-UK atrocities committed against Iraq.

There were no terrorists, or terrorist atrocities being carried out, in Iraq until the illegal US-UK carried out the ultimate crime of 'unprovoked aggression' against this innocent and defenceless country (one of the reaosn it was attacked was because the US-UK had disarmed it and knew it couldn't fight back). Despite all the western lies and propaganda about Iraqi WMD and Saddam's links to Al Quaeda, there was no terrorist organisations operating or training in Iraq. But there is now!

Let's not forget who was helping the Iranians against the Shah. And the whole mess between Iran and Iraq.

- would you clarify these statements for me Mohammed mate, and I'll be able to tell you what I think - I'm not sure what you mean here -

All the best!

Veritas

Where would you guys like to see Iran go in terms of being a regional power? Isn't it a bit worrying that they are arming, funding, and training Hezbolla in an independent country, Lebanon? They have even offered to rebuild the south, much to the chagrin of their own inhabitants, who think charity should begin at home. How does Egypt feel about this?

joe90

The US is subisiding and arming independent Israel, so what?

Israel has illegal nuclear weapon systems - doesn't that worry you?

Israel is currently illegally occupying 3 other countries - doesn't that worry you?

Israel recently carried out a major attack on one of the countries it is illegally occupying, Lebanon - and is currently in the process of ethnically-cleansing and destoying what is left of Palestine - doesn't that worry you?

The US is also currently occupying Iraq and Aghanistan - doesn't that worry you?

It seems you are worried because the traditional victims of the US and Israel in the Middle East are now able to resist and fight back againt unprovoked aggression and Americanled international terrorism - how worrying that must be for you!

ainelivia

[1] The US is subisiding and arming independent Israel, so what?

(AL,) Since when has "so what" been evidential argument for anything?

[2] Israel has illegal nuclear weapon systems - doesn't that worry you?

(AL) I'd like to see the weapons.

[3]Israel is currently illegally occupying 3 other countries - doesn't that worry you?

(AL) Using your example, So What.

[4]Israel recently carried out a major attack on one of the countries it is illegally occupying, Lebanon - and is currently in the process of ethnically-cleansing and destoying what is left of Palestine - doesn't that worry you?

(AL) You are repeating yourself here.

[4] The US is also currently occupying Iraq and Aghanistan - doesn't that worry you?

(AL) We all know that, don't be so patronising.

[5] It seems you are worried because the traditional victims of the US and Israel in the Middle East are now able to resist and fight back againt unprovoked aggression and Americanled international terrorism - how worrying that must be for you!

(AL) That is, your conclusion, your assumption and assertion, and would be considered hearsay.

Question were asked which you did not answer. You used "your knowledge" to attempt to demonstrate that commenter has no sympathy with those situations. Which is not what they said or even expressed.

I'd imagine that most people are "worried" about the situation in the Levant, and you have no right to insinuate that they are not, in order to demonstrate your "encyclopaedicial knowledge" and fixation with the US. What exactly is your educational background? A PhD in Mind Reading? A Photographic Memory? There are some brain cells that are used for reasoning, thinking and exchange of ideas. Oh dear, were they missing in your package?

Veritas

Joe 90, since you avoid answering my question directly by filibustering I will assume by your reaction then that you would welcome Iran's establishing informal control over Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, on the basis of the dubious political maxim 'my enemy's enemy is therefore my friend'? I note however Mohammad's anxious concerns. Osama, do you think the Sunni/Shia divide is really becoming negligible? Or is that just wishful thinking?

Osama

Veritas, for a number of years now there has been a discussion on rapprochement between the two sects. Between the mainstreams on both sides, there are not a lot of differences. The schism came after the Prophet Muhammad's death on who should succeed him. It was a long time ago, there's nothing we can do about it now, time to move on.

That's the theological background to this. Practically, we're seeing it too. Palestine is one arena. We've also heard warm words said about the Iranians from Islamists across the Middle East and Pakistan in the last few years. As the threats increase on Iran, it's fair to say you'll see the Shia problem being put to one side more and more by Sunnis.

Ainelivia, I try not to get involved in the constant set-to between you and Joe, but I hope you weren't denying the existence of Israeli nukes in (2) above. I don't even think the Israelis bother doing that anymore.

ainelivia

No Osama, sorry, I was taking the sarcastic route on that, we know, and they know, we know. It was a leap of the imagination on my part. As in, imagine if I went there and asked to see the darn things!! Actually that's an idea.

And thanks for the non-involvement. I'm a big girl now. :-)

joe90

It isn't a set-to Osama - who ever this ainelivia is, they are just out to waste people's time - pure and utter gibberish

As for veritas -
- you seem quite happy at the prospect of US control over these countries, as well as its illegal attacks invasions and occupations which has led to 100s of 1000s of deaths -
- would I be right in assuming that?

How many countries has Iran attacked, or is occupying at the present time?

How many couintries on its borders are being occupied by the US at the present time?

How big are the bloodbaths in these US occupied countries on Iran's borders, and why do you think this should be no cause for concern amongst Iranian, Syrians, Lebanese and the rest of the people of the region (as well as the world at large)?

The US and Israel often threaten to attack Iran in public - Iran has said nothing of the kind - so why do you think Iran is the belligerent?

What's wrong with the US leaving the Middle East, stop supporting totalitarian-authoritarian and racist regimes, and leaving people in peace to get on with their lives ?

There isn't too much filibuster there I hope - if you can understand the gibberish of ainelivia then you shouldn't have any problems with these startightforward statements of fact and enquiry

Sadat

Well said, Joe

Pig eaters think from behind. That's why they have no problem in legalising prostitution and drugs but have a problem with modest dressing styles.

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