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26 July 2006

Comments

ainelivia

Or as we've seen of late, those who claim to represent Muslim opinion, tend to only represent a particular point of view and not the larger majority.

Abdur Rahman

As salaamu alaikum brother Osama,

Yes, you're right. If we leave the field, we create a vacuum. And, as we can see, there are many ready, willing and able to fill such a vacuum.

However, I do think that one of the reasons why there's is now so much noise about the UK Muslim community is that we are beginning to express our own opinions.

Ma'as salama,
Abdur Rahman

Osama

Ainelivia, can of worms alert!

I wonder what evidence you have for your statement though, apart from the people I mentioned in the post.

It's like Inayat Bunglawala said in Martin Bright's 30 minute documentary. All these Muslims squealing about the MCB and others being too radical are perfectly at liberty to join, participate and vote for the leadership. They don't however - because they know they don't really represent anyone.

ainelivia

I was not referring to anyone you mentioned in your post. I expect that Mr Bunglawala would say something like that. That was the easy answer. Perhaps they (the ones you refer to as squealing) do feel that these organisations are too radical, and would therefore not be able to represent their views. And yes it was a TV program.

I don't usually provide evidence of my statement especially when that statement is my view as I see it.

Feel it is disrespectful of you to refer to others "squealing", perhaps they were just giving their point of view. As to their "representing anyone" perhaps they are just representing themselves and feel that they are at liberty to do so, without the support of numbers or "evidence". Which is exactly what I am doing now.

Are you telling me I don't have that right?

It is much more difficult to stand up as an individual, without a group behind you and say that you disagree with large numbers of people. Numbers of people agreeing on anything, doesn't necessarily mean they've got it right. And frequently leads to a a great deal of inflexible and intransigent thinking.

That's called the party line, spin, and singing from the same song sheet. That's why organisations employ spokespeople who are skilled at twisting answers to make it seem simple and democratic, when in fact that may not be the case. And I'd apply that to numerous organisations and politics in this country and worldwide.

They're all at it which is why I remain completely skeptical and willing to listen to anyone's point of view and then rely on my own in built c**p-o-meter to sort straight talking from side-stepping.

These people were speaking from their own experience, would you gainsay or ignore that?

Osama

Ainelvia, with respect, you weren't airing an opinion - you originally said "as we've seen of late", so it's entirely legitimate to ask what you've seen.

The people I were referring to are actually continually trying to shut down the MCB, so maybe we're talking about different people. I wouldn't dream of telling anyone they have no right to speak at all - this is an issue of how strongly we should regard that voice. Again, with respect, your original post talked about how weightily we should regard a voice depending on whether a majority or not follow it. Your second post is different.

ainelivia

Suppose I should berate myself for generalisations. How strongly I regard any individual voice, experience, or feeling is rarely if ever linked to the numbers of people backing that view. And it seems you have ignored my question?

Osama

I spy two question marks in your previous comment both of which were answered.

ainelivia

As mentioned previously, my ?-o-meter works 24/7; moving swiftly on, if you do not wish to or don't want to answer a question, just say so. A Yes or a No is always sufficient for me. A side-step says mind games.

Osama

Ainelivia's questions changing the subject and accusing me of denying people voice:

Feel it is disrespectful of you to refer to others "squealing", perhaps they were just giving their point of view. As to their "representing anyone" perhaps they are just representing themselves and feel that they are at liberty to do so, without the support of numbers or "evidence". Which is exactly what I am doing now.

Are you telling me I don't have that right?

and

These people were speaking from their own experience, would you gainsay or ignore that?

My answer above:

I wouldn't dream of telling anyone they have no right to speak at all

Would have thought that was quite categoric, but for your benefit again - "no" and "no".

ainelivia

I get a touch of the "I'm getting quite irritated tone, rather exasperated tone in your responses". Would that be with my ideas or thoughts, or would it be because I am a woman?

I wouldn't worry about it really, it's your passive aggression and eventually you will have to stop blaming others for it.

Anyway in the meantime, if you are going to deliver what I regard to be as a quite slanderous attack on a decent journalist, remember there are few, then I'd expect some feedback, wouldn't you.

Osama

Where's the slander? Apart from your accusation of sexism.

Abu Abdur Rahman

ainelivia: "Would that be with my ideas or thoughts, or would it be because I am a woman?"

LOL. That has to be one of the funniest things I have heard all day. What has your being a women got to do with anything?! And how do you know Osama is even aware of your gender? I come across your comments fairly regularly here, and had not given a moment's thought to your gender - it had not occurred to me that you were female, and now that you have pointed out this completely irrelevant fact, it still does not add to, or subtract from, your views in any way.

What exactly do you mean by this: "I wouldn't worry about it really, it's your passive aggression and eventually you will have to stop blaming others for it".

You asked a question, Osama answered it in his first reply. You kept asking the same question, so Osama repeated his answer.

What is passive, or aggressive about that? As he did not really go and blame you for anything, so I am not sure if your strong criticism is warranted?

Apologies to both of you for intruding in your conversation.

Yasmin Mahdi

Regarding the original post (not the comments battle that seems to be going on beneath it :D) - I totally agree with your views on Muslim political participation in Britain - the last few years have seen Muslims take to the streets in anti war demos (with Muslim organisations having a big role to play in mobilising their communities) but we've got to move beyond that to actually making ourselves heard EVERYWHERE. Criticising those who misrepresent our views is fine but the challenge is of going on to really do something about it - something Tariq Ramadan calls 'getting out of the ghetto mentality'.

HH

Advice from MPAC on lobbying your MP
http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/2382/1/

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